Rules concerning blitz?

[MJMcCready]

Hello, I am playing in a blitz tournament weekly OTB, however, the organiser keeps saying things which I cannot find proof of on the FIDE website. He seems quite sure of what he is saying, so if someone could confirm whether he is right or wrong it would be much appreciated.

1. If a player knocks over a piece then presses the clock before he has put the piece back on its square correctly, this is illegal and results in an immediate loss. Is this correct?
2. Any illegal move of any kind, for example leaving the King in check results in immediate loss. Is this correct?
3. If both flags have fallen, the game is drawn. Is this correct?
And lastly,
4. If you touch a piece you have to move it (this I am sure is correct) but the move is only complete once you have released the piece from your hand. If you have done that, you cannot move it to another square even if you have not pressed the clock yet. Is this correct?

Once again, we are only playing blitz.

Many thanks

[NickFaulks]

Is the event FIDE rated?

[MJMcCready]

Yes.

[Paul McKeown]

The short answer is that none of the four propositions that you have presented above are in accord with the Laws. A full answer as to in how many different ways the four propositions break the Laws would be painfully long. I really do hope the organiser was not speaking on behalf of the arbiters.

[Roger de Coverly]

The short answer is that none of the four propositions that you have presented above are in accord with the Laws

It's redundant with digital clocks unless you hack them not to stop on flag fall, but is it not the case that "both flags down = draw" is still in the Laws?

[IM Jack Rudd]

No, that one appears to have disappeared.

(It's an issue throughout the Laws of Chess - they contain very little guidance for what should happen if something that should have terminated play didn't actually do so. It's the same problem as in the other thread with a draw agreement with the flag down.)

[Paul McKeown]

The short answer is that none of the four propositions that you have presented above are in accord with the Laws

It's redundant with digital clocks unless you hack them not to stop on flag fall, but is it not the case that "both flags down = draw" is still in the Laws?

Yes, Roger, that is right, sort of.

I assume that the conditions under which the full rules of chess apply, B.3.1, are not met, and that the Blitz laws in Appendix B and thus the Rapid laws in Appendix A apply.

A.4.3 then deals with flag fall.

A.4.3 To claim a win on time, the claimant may stop the chessclock and notify the arbiter. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the claimant cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.

[(Boxed section)If both clocks indicate 0.00, no claim for win on time can be submitted by the players, but the Arbiter shall decide the result of the game by the flag that is shown on one of the clocks. The player whose clock shows this indication loses the game.]

The annotated FIDE Arbiter's Handbook gives the following indication as to the meaning of the various boxed sections:

(boxed section)IMPORTANT:
Throughout this manual, text which appears in a box such as this one is given as advice and is the opinion of a number of experienced arbiters. It does not form part of the Laws nor the Regulations in which it appears.

Thus the opinion of the experienced arbiters who annotated the annotated FIDE Arbiter's Handbook is that the indication of a digital clock should be used to determine which flag fell first and therefore who won and who lost the game.

I try to abide by the opinion of the experienced annotating arbiters in all decisions I take, as I view consistency of application of the Laws to be important.

It is interesting (if not of relevance to this particular discussion) that the general Law applicable to flag fall is:

6.4 Immediately after a flag falls, the requirements of Article 6.3.1 must be checked.
This means that the arbiter and/or the players have to check if the minimum numbers of moves have been completed.
(boxed section)...snip...
(boxed section) Where electronic clocks are used and both clocks show 0.00, the Arbiter can usually establish which flag fell first, with the help of the “-“ or any other flag indication. Where mechanical clocks are used then article III.3.1 of the Guidelines about games without increment including Quickplay Finishes is applied.

So, where electronic clocks are used, the experienced annotating arbiters follow what we have already noted from A.4.3.

However, where mechanical clocks are concerned, then the Guideline for QPF is applied! The appended guidelines for adjourned and QPF formats, as we have been told often enough, may be dropped at some future date. So, the experienced annotating arbiters refer to a rather obscelescent guideline annexed to the Laws to support their interpretation, which does not feel entirely satisfactory.

Actually, I would much prefer it, if the Laws explicitly stated all these interpretations given in boxed sections. If an interpretation is necessary to clarify what the Laws mean, then the Laws should simply state it.

[MJMcCready]

The short answer is that none of the four propositions that you have presented above are in accord with the Laws. A full answer as to in how many different ways the four propositions break the Laws would be painfully long. I really do hope the organiser was not speaking on behalf of the arbiters.

okay thanks. He is an international arbiter and insistent that if you knock a piece over and then press the clock before placing the piece back on the square, that is illegal and loses you the game on the spot, but I have looked and can't find it in the rule book. So I guess he is wrong there?

[MJMcCready]

His main point seems to be, if you make an illegal move, such as leave your king in check. That results in an immediate loss, is this correct? He is quite sure it is but I can't see it in the rule book.

[Paul McKeown]

His main point seems to be, if you make an illegal move, such as leave your king in check. That results in an immediate loss, is this correct? He is quite sure it is but I can't see it in the rule book.

7.5.5 After the action taken under Article 7.5.1, 7.5.2, 7.5.3 or 7.5.4 for the first completed illegal move by a player, the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent; for the second completed illegal move by the same player the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.

- FIDE Laws of Chess

B.2 The penalties mentioned in Articles 7 and 9 of the Competition Rules shall be one minute instead of two minutes.

- FIDE Laws of Chess

It is no longer the case that the penalty of forfeiting a game of chess differs between blitz, rapid and standard. The penalty was equalised to happening after a player's second illegal move a long time ago.

Indeed one reads in the boxed section below A.4.2 the following:

This means that the player does not lose the game with the first illegal move, but only with the second, as it is in standard chess. The penalty is also the same as in standard chess.

[MJMcCready]

Ok, thanks. Looks like I shall have to talk to him about all this because he is quite sure of himself, and I assumed that since he is an International Arbiter he knew what he was talking about.

[Joey Stewart]

Blitz chess feels a bit like playing pool in a pub - everyone invents their own "house" rules and swears that they are official. Still, whatever the rules, better to at least have them written down beforehand then trying to make interpretations during a raging time scramble.

[Paul McKeown]

Blitz chess feels a bit like playing pool in a pub - everyone invents their own "house" rules and swears that they are official.

This was a FIDE rated event - "house" rules should not apply.

[Roger de Coverly]

. He is an international arbiter and insistent that if you knock a piece over and then press the clock before placing the piece back on the square, that is illegal and loses you the game on the spot, but I have looked and can't find it in the rule book. So I guess he is wrong there?

I suspect he's making that one up, but I'm not sure if replacing displaced pieces on your own time is covered anywhere. What happens if you knock a piece over whilst pressing the clock?

[MJMcCready]

The closest I could get to that was in the rules it says you can only adjust your pieces in your own time and not your opponents. I will speak to him this Friday about where all this is coming from. I didn't think illegal moves lost you the game but he swears blind they do, so... .