Times cryptic chess clue

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Paul Habershon
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Paul Habershon » Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:13 pm

Phil Neatherway wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:10 am
Appear unexpectedly to be pawn ahead (3,2)

Taken from the Times Cryptic Crossword Book 1, puzzle 10.
POP UP, based on 'pop' being slang for 'pawn' (goods), as explained in a 1960s pop(!) song by Anthony Newley:

You know, pop goes the weasel
For years, I've wondered
What that meant
And nobody seemed to know
So, I looked it up
And the official explanation
Goes something like this
Pop goes the weasel refers to
The habit of London hatters long ago
Popping or pawning their weasels
Or accessories on Saturday night
To buy liquor, isn't that interesting? Haha

Paul Habershon
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Paul Habershon » Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:23 pm

My attention has been drawn to a rather nice Guardian clue for SPASSKY, perhaps celebrating the great man's 86th birthday.

Boris playing intellectual game, heavens above, admitting 'I haven't a clue' (7)

There's an irrelevant whiff of Johnson here, and, in trying to solve it, I was sidetracked by the idea of GODUNOV because 'go' is a game and ''duno' is nearly 'I haven't a clue'.

Of course Spassky conventionally can't be a Times cryptic solution until he is dead.

Phil Neatherway
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Phil Neatherway » Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:06 pm

Paul, I could see it had to be 'Pop up' but I couldn't work out why. Thanks for the explanation!

Paul Habershon
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Paul Habershon » Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:37 am

Relative, endlessly strict and formidable mater? (11)

G?A?D?????R

The Times 25th February









Not realising this was a chess clue I thought 'relative' would be the definition and, with the letters I already had and especially with 'mater' in mind, expected GRANDMOTHER.
Of course it's actually GRANDMASTER, with 'grandma' as the relative and 'ster(n)' as endlessly strict. ''Formidable mater' is a nice definition.

Paul Habershon
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Paul Habershon » Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:49 am

Chess in the clue but not apparently in the solution, though there is a specialist aspect of chess in the parsing.

Times 19th March

Rook was forced to capture knight, giving control (4, 2, 4)

TAKE IN HAND

Definition: control
Rook: take in (=deceive)
was forced: had (was forced to=had to)
knight: N ('captured' by HAD)

So a non-chessplayer is expected to know chess notation with the added difficulty of knight not beginning with N.
When did N start to replace Kt in British chess magazines and books?
My first score book started on 1st January 1962 and I see I was using N already, in descriptive notation of course.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:40 am

"When did N start to replace Kt in British chess magazines and books?"

According to wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descriptive_notation N was debated in 1944.

I tend to be suspicious of wikipedia's accuracy, but in this case, I would have guessed it was about then, so it may be true. I resisted "N" for some years, but even if you stick with descriptive, Kt-QKt5 seems a lot longer than N-QN5.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:24 pm

Someone will know, the reasons why that is difficult to answer is because every magazine and publishing has chose to make the transition it different times, often for arbitrary reasons.

NickFaulks
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:46 pm

In the seventies there was a fashion among strongish, youngish players to use algebraic notation in some foreign language, typically German or Russian. Thankfully this seemed to die away.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:14 pm

I once wrote my moves down in French for the entirety of a tournament. Mind you, said tournament was in Paris.

NickFaulks
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:07 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:14 pm
I once wrote my moves down in French for the entirety of a tournament. Mind you, said tournament was in Paris.
Pretentious, moi?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:33 am

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:14 pm
I once wrote my moves down in French for the entirety of a tournament. Mind you, said tournament was in Paris.
Playing a blind German in Italy, I thought it wise to score in German algebraic. I defered castling through an inability to recall the word "Rochade".

Playing a German GM in France, I wondered how to make what was then a 10.2 claim (unable to win ...). Fortunately the game reached a position where no claim was needed.

Reviewing some old scoresheets I noticed that I had switched from Kt to N. I'm not sure why, but within a year I adopted algebraic. I know why that was, it meant that I could understand what strong players were talking about when they spoke about the importance. for example, of the e4 square in some openings.

The 1960s motivation for gaining familiarity by using German or Russian algebraic was the state of the art theory not available in English descriptive.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Geoff Chandler » Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:22 pm

Chess mentioned in a clue in today's cryptic Metro.
I'm sorry for lowering the tone but I am finding I can complete most of the Metro cryptic crossword on a bus trip. The Times, Guardian and Telegraph I really struggle with. A few years back I just did the 'quickie' but thanks to this thread I now find them dull and never do them.

13 down: Finish chess game off for childhood friend. (8)

I recall seeing this on Edward WInter's site a while ago:
"Wanted: ingenious chess-related clues published in crossword puzzles."
https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/puzzles.html

Of course I shall refrain from sending in any but over the years some of you Times buffs will have amassed a tidy collection.

Paul Habershon
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Paul Habershon » Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:00 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:22 pm
Chess mentioned in a clue in today's cryptic Metro.
I'm sorry for lowering the tone but I am finding I can complete most of the Metro cryptic crossword on a bus trip. The Times, Guardian and Telegraph I really struggle with. A few years back I just did the 'quickie' but thanks to this thread I now find them dull and never do them.

13 down: Finish chess game off for childhood friend. (8)
Good on the Metro. The answer reminds me of the girls in Hugh Hefner's famous top shelf magazine and got me wondering whether it's still being published. I see that it's one of the many things accelerated by Çovid. The last print edition was in March 2020 and they had been thinking of going digital anyway.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:06 am

Hi Paul,

Within seconds of getting it (I got it reasonably quickly) I thought of Arthur Askey, his catch phrase was 'Hello Playmates.' must be how the mind triggers and links things when in cryptic mode.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:56 pm

Somewhat tenuous link, but Private Eye 1595 has a cartoon with the Metropolitan Police logo and words, "Potential Crime Pool" alongside. One character explains to two police officers, "A quick win would be to rearrange the letters to better reflect the organisation."

Anyway the anagram was so good I had to share it.

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