Cheating in chess

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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon May 08, 2023 4:28 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 3:55 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 3:50 pm
Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 11:17 am
A recent story on Hybrid Chess in the US - a suggestion that the concept is close to being ruined by the alleged trend in the US of their players (usually American juniors) possibly buying FIDE rating points from Europeans in what are effectively sham tournaments; https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1ss9qq7
Emil has chipped in on the Twitch thread: https://twitter.com/EmilSutovsky/status ... 4400301056
Simply and efficiently fixed.

https://qc.fide.com/2023/05/07/qualific ... id-events/
Excellent.

Matt Bridgeman

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Mon May 08, 2023 4:31 pm

Not saying he’s definitely cheating but here’s a 12 year old racking up 328 FIDE points in purely hybrid tournaments in October 2022, at the expense of all Serbian and Bulgarian opponents; https://ratings.fide.com/calculations.p ... 1&rating=0

In fact looking at his FIDE card he racked up another 239 points on Hybrids just last month! Hardly any over the boards - a recent state champs where the highest rated player was 1900, and he dumps 131 points. It gives you the flavour of what’s probably been going on.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Mon May 08, 2023 4:37 pm

I don't see why this is a bad thing, the kid is doing his bit to help combat deflation buying those points and any unrated opponents he faces will end up getting a decent grade of their own. I'd happily give away fide rating points to anyone who paid me - pm me for details.
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NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Mon May 08, 2023 4:51 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 4:37 pm
I'd happily give away fide rating points to anyone who paid me - pm me for details.
Noted.
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Matt Bridgeman

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Mon May 08, 2023 4:53 pm

It looks like at face value the Pacific Northwest Chess Centre has been one of the main hubs of these shenanigans, and has helped produce numerous titled players. https://www.pnwchesscenter.org/
https://en.chessbase.com/post/a-new-nor ... -chess-hub

Although perhaps more recently the Hybrid events seem to have been organised often by Bulgarian GM Aleksander Delchev. Quite a sizeable global conspiracy for FIDE to get their teeth into!

These results seem to stick out like a sore thumb - here’s an America WIM, fallen back to 2060-ish in Feb 2023. Quick get some Hybrids on! 284 point gain in May 2023, with 12 games ‘played’ -https://ratings.fide.com/profile/30952530/chart

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Mon May 08, 2023 5:37 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 4:53 pm
It looks like at face value the Pacific Northwest Chess Centre has been one of the main hubs of these shenanigans, and has helped produce numerous titled players. https://www.pnwchesscenter.org/
https://en.chessbase.com/post/a-new-nor ... -chess-hub
Thanks ( I suppose ) for this link to something from which I would normally try to avert my gaze. Too depressing.
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John Moore
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by John Moore » Mon May 08, 2023 6:37 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 4:31 pm
Not saying he’s definitely cheating but here’s a 12 year old racking up 328 FIDE points in purely hybrid tournaments in October 2022, at the expense of all Serbian and Bulgarian opponents; https://ratings.fide.com/calculations.p ... 1&rating=0

In fact looking at his FIDE card he racked up another 239 points on Hybrids just last month! Hardly any over the boards - a recent state champs where the highest rated player was 1900, and he dumps 131 points. It gives you the flavour of what’s probably been going on.
Makes you wonder what his parents think they are doing or indeed what the kid himself thinks he's doing.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon May 08, 2023 6:51 pm

John Moore wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 6:37 pm
Makes you wonder what his parents think they are doing or indeed what the kid himself thinks he's doing.
The short answer is probably getting him places in events where rating is the selection criterion. The value of being able to say you represented your state/the United States at junior chess is less obvious to me though, particularly when the results are unlikely to be good.

Unless it's a money-making scheme where you buy points off Eastern Europeans cheaply and then sell them to Americans at a profit.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Mon May 08, 2023 7:45 pm

FIDE has responded amazingly rapidly

https://qc.fide.com/2023/05/07/qualific ... id-events/

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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul McKeown » Tue May 09, 2023 1:46 am

Joey Stewart wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 4:37 pm
I'd happily give away fide rating points to anyone who paid me
At one notorious London League match in which the amateurs of Drunken Knights tried their best against the behemoth that was Wood Green, Peter Ackley, having been comprehensively trashed by his GM opponent, asked his opponent how much he had been paid, and before waiting for an answer turned round to Brian Smith, Wood Green's maecenas and informed him that "I would have been happy to lose for half as much!"
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MJMcCready
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by MJMcCready » Tue May 09, 2023 3:47 pm

What's the difference between acting dishonestly and using a ploy to gain an unfair advantage? For example, someone employing a parapsychologist to sit in the crowd and stare you down the thrown you off your game, as someone once did whilst attempting to become world champion?

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Geoff Chandler » Tue May 09, 2023 10:09 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Tue May 09, 2023 3:47 pm
What's the difference between acting dishonestly and using a ploy to gain an unfair advantage? For example, someone employing a parapsychologist to sit in the crowd and stare you down the thrown you off your game, as someone once did whilst attempting to become world champion?
The will be Karpov - Korchnoi 1978. ('...whilst attempting to be a world champion?')
Team Karpov, then Karpov was the world champion, had Dr. Zhukhar in the audience to put Korchnoi off and Korchnoi really believed that he was being hypnotised and it was affecting his play. Team Korchnoi put anti Zukhar measures in place by employing a couple of yoga experts to restore Korchnoi's confidence.

The match was 3-3 (6 draws) but in game 7 Karpov suddenly refused to shake hands before the start of the game. This upset Korchnoi so much so he lost. (cheating, gamesmanship, rude, or unsportsmanlike?)

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed May 10, 2023 6:14 pm

FIDE acted quickly and decisively and now the USCF have followed suit - not what I'd expected to be honest, but kudos to both organisations.

https://new.uschess.org/news/update-reg ... rid-events

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Wed May 10, 2023 7:55 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed May 10, 2023 6:14 pm
FIDE acted quickly and decisively and now the USCF have followed suit
The FIDE action is obviously not a surprise to me. I think the USCF reaction in terms of internal hybrid events is one they may regret. Do they not have faith in their own arbiters?
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MJMcCready
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by MJMcCready » Fri May 12, 2023 7:32 am

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Tue May 09, 2023 10:09 pm
MJMcCready wrote:
Tue May 09, 2023 3:47 pm
What's the difference between acting dishonestly and using a ploy to gain an unfair advantage? For example, someone employing a parapsychologist to sit in the crowd and stare you down the thrown you off your game, as someone once did whilst attempting to become world champion?
The will be Karpov - Korchnoi 1978. ('...whilst attempting to be a world champion?')
Team Karpov, then Karpov was the world champion, had Dr. Zhukhar in the audience to put Korchnoi off and Korchnoi really believed that he was being hypnotised and it was affecting his play. Team Korchnoi put anti Zukhar measures in place by employing a couple of yoga experts to restore Korchnoi's confidence.

The match was 3-3 (6 draws) but in game 7 Karpov suddenly refused to shake hands before the start of the game. This upset Korchnoi so much so he lost. (cheating, gamesmanship, rude, or unsportsmanlike?)
Fast forwards a few decades then we had toiletgate!

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