Accusation against Alejandro Ramirez

[Roger de Coverly]

I presume Sabrina would not make such a claim without knowledge of some specific case where that has happened, and I am sure that there are people within the ECF who would be very interested to see her evidence and would take it seriously. Otherwise, there wouldn't seem to be much they can do.

Old news though if it's her own experience, given Sabrina hasn't played in England since 2017.

[Mick Norris]

It doesn't have to have happened in the UK to involve an English player, though

More importantly, the ECF needs to look at allegations no matter if they are a decade old

[Roger de Coverly]

More importantly, the ECF needs to look at allegations no matter if they are a decade old

Here are some allegations just over a decade old. Did the ECF ever look into them?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5593

[Kevin Thurlow]

"viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5593"

The really sad thing about that and the latest allegations is that my initial reaction tends to be, "Not again". It seems misogyny is still rife.

[NickFaulks]

Here are some allegations just over a decade old. Did the ECF ever look into them?viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5593

I was not greatly invested in the forum ten years ago and do not remember this.

It looks like "something awful has happened but I am too traumatised to give more details". If matters are not clearer ten years later I hope someone in the ECF will look at it. I am not the obvious "first responder" but would be willing to use any influence I might have.

[NickFaulks]

I haven't posted as soon as I would have liked, as I'd been busy with the Big Slick tournament but I have to admit that one of my reasons for resigning from the board was the treatment of Sabrina. It is horrible to see someone with such enthusiasm, charisma and undoubted ability at coaching, organising and playing have it all drained out of her and I really wasn't comfortable being part of a board that contributed to this.

Lawrence, I was not in the UK ten years ago and knew nothing of this. Now that Sabrina has felt able to put herself back in the frame, can you say more?

[Roger de Coverly]

Lawrence, I was not in the UK ten years ago and knew nothing of this. Now that Sabrina has felt able to put herself back in the frame, can you say more?

There was a long thread about coaching at the ill-fated Sheffield British in 2011. Various parties including Lawrence were involved.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3229. Although non-official coaching takes place at the British both before and after Sheffield, various ECF directors and officials seemed, to an outsider at least, to be doing as much as possible to derail the initiative.

Sabrina also stood for Junior Director losing to Phil Ehr. It was later alleged that the election wasn't as fair as it should have been.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3465 although there's nothing in the thread.

[LawrenceCooper]

I haven't posted as soon as I would have liked, as I'd been busy with the Big Slick tournament but I have to admit that one of my reasons for resigning from the board was the treatment of Sabrina. It is horrible to see someone with such enthusiasm, charisma and undoubted ability at coaching, organising and playing have it all drained out of her and I really wasn't comfortable being part of a board that contributed to this.

Lawrence, I was not in the UK ten years ago and knew nothing of this. Now that Sabrina has felt able to put herself back in the frame, can you say more?

I had totally forgotten about this but from the dates it would be from when I was International Director (2009-2012) and when Sabrina was joint Manager of Women's Chess with Jovanka. I felt that they both had great ideas to organise things for English girls and women but life was made very difficult for them in terms of obstacles being put in their way. I understand the frustration as I encountered it to a much lesser degree. Change doesn't come easy to some and new ideas and initiatives aren't always met with enthusiasm by those who prefer to keep things as they always have been etc

I don't want to comment too much on recent revelations except to say that some of the abuse aimed at her online and in messages has been horrible. As a general comment (not specific to Sabrina) I find the comments being made towards women on chess.com, Twitter, Twitch, chess24 and youtube to be thoroughly depressing so it shouldn't be underestimated how difficult it can be being female, (not just in chess I know) but that is where most of my involvement is.

[NickFaulks]

and when Sabrina was joint Manager of Women's Chess with Jovanka. I felt that they both had great ideas to organise things for English girls and women but life was made very difficult for them in terms of obstacles being put in their way.

But what were the ideas and what were the obstacles? I believe you, but we need to understand that if we don't want the same thing to happen again.

As a general comment (not specific to Sabrina) I find the comments being made towards women on chess.com, Twitter, Twitch, chess24 and youtube to be thoroughly depressing so it shouldn't be underestimated how difficult it can be being female, (not just in chess I know) but that is where most of my involvement is.

Social media seems to be very much about abuse, with this forum being one of the least offensive ( I have archived some exceptions! ). If you stick your head above the parapet then you're going to get abuse and I have never understood why anyone should give a monkey's left one about that. Credible physical threats are a different matter, but I really don't think that is what we are talking about here.

[Paul Cooksey]

I think we are a bit off topic talking about Sabrina's unsuccessful foray into coaching and ECF politics. She was talking about sexism and the hostile atmosphere she experienced as a chess player. Her short cross video

The USCF does seemed to have prioritised minimizing the risk of litigation.

[Roger de Coverly]

I think we are a bit off topic talking about Sabrina's unsuccessful foray into coaching and ECF politics. She was talking about sexism and the hostile atmosphere she experienced as a chess player

Off topic perhaps, but there's no mention of harassment in her posts on this forum.

[Mark Howitt]

Dudes just been reading these female chess things...

Had quick chat with Sabrina recently on LinkedIn and she seems like nice person...

Surreal world is all I can say...

[Roger Lancaster]

I'd have to say, from experience of chess over 60+ years, I don't find any of this particularly surprising. There's a minority of male chess players who are either misogynists or otherwise behave in ways clearly offensive to women. Unfortunately, there's also a much larger number who - although they don't fall in either category - choose to turn a blind eye to what they know, or suspect, is going on.

[NickFaulks]

Her short cross video[/url]

Is there anything here beyond "women must be strong". I'm not a woman, what does she want me to do? Curl up and die?

The USCF does seemed to have prioritised minimizing the risk of litigation.

Yes, Jen has done everything right, with names and dates. I'm not sure why she didn't do it years ago, and my recollection of Greg is that he would have been pushing her to kick doors in, but USCF and St Louis are clearly on the run now.

[Roger Lancaster]

I'd have to say, from experience of chess over 60+ years, I don't find any of this particularly surprising. There's a minority of male chess players who are either misogynists or otherwise behave in ways clearly offensive to women. Unfortunately, there's also a much larger number who - although they don't fall in either category - choose to turn a blind eye to what they know, or suspect, is going on.

By way of example, here's a verbatim extract from a woman explaining in 2018 why she had decided to leave a club: "... (name) didn't say it in so many words, just that he started talking about people being able to throw out a bit of chess even if they have a low IQ, in a conversation with just me. The only other thing we were talking about was work, so I didn't know why else that would come up. Especially as the following week I heard him laughing to (name) that "SHE keeps missing things" when I was the only female there. I just get the impression he thinks I am a joke"

This seemingly wasn't an isolated incident and, while it's lower down the offensiveness scale than much of what has been described here, it's clearly an attempt to belittle the woman. It won't come as any great surprise that, when I raised this behaviour with other members of the club committee, the conversation quickly turned to something else.