Accusation against Alejandro Ramirez

[Mick Norris]

I have 2 different perspectives

Professionally, the FCA tell me that any expression of dissatisfaction should be treated as a complaint

If I had applied that to when I was MCF President, I'd have had to give up my job to deal full time with chess players, it was certainly time consuming enough as it was; I think there's a big difference in how we would deal with things now than how we did more than a decade ago (when the correct channels didn't exist possibly as they hadn't been set up, not sure when safeguarding officer became a position for example)

Again, like Paul I'm interested in how chess organisations like the ECF should deal with things now, but I don't want this to sound like trying to avoid the very serious issues; I don't have faith in the police though, but I am heartened by your view Matt that they would deal with matters properly now

[Matt Bridgeman]

I have 2 different perspectives

Professionally, the FCA tell me that any expression of dissatisfaction should be treated as a complaint

If I had applied that to when I was MCF President, I'd have had to give up my job to deal full time with chess players, it was certainly time consuming enough as it was; I think there's a big difference in how we would deal with things now than how we did more than a decade ago (when the correct channels didn't exist possibly as they hadn't been set up, not sure when safeguarding officer became a position for example)

Again, like Paul I'm interested in how chess organisations like the ECF should deal with things now, but I don't want this to sound like trying to avoid the very serious issues; I don't have faith in the police though, but I am heartened by your view Matt that they would deal with matters properly now

I wasn’t in any particularly contentious forces but I know there’s a lot of bad press. But the police do have an awful lot of ‘you must’ do this rules about the level of service they need to provide. I honestly think Sabrina would get a lot of victim support and regular updates on her cases. It will be interesting how her legal advice is going. The deadlines set are this afternoon believe.

…and if things were botched in some way in 2018, that’s only 5 years ago.

[Chris Goodall]

Amid all this hinting darkly at certain allegations made to certain people about certain events, I think we should state clearly that there weren't any allegations of sexual misconduct connected to the Development Officer saga. Just for the benefit of anyone skimming this thread. There was an unfortunate juxtaposition of topics within a few posts.

[Roger Lancaster]

Amid all this hinting darkly at certain allegations made to certain people about certain events, I think we should state clearly that there weren't any allegations of sexual misconduct connected to the Development Officer saga. Just for the benefit of anyone skimming this thread. There was an unfortunate juxtaposition of topics within a few posts.

Point well made.

[NickFaulks]

…and if things were botched in some way in 2018

Or indeed in any other year about which we have been told nothing.

[Paul Cooksey]

Again, like Paul I'm interested in how chess organisations like the ECF should deal with things now, but I don't want this to sound like trying to avoid the very serious issues; I don't have faith in the police though, but I am heartened by your view Matt that they would deal with matters properly now

I guess I am somewhere in between. I am optimistic that the police would do what they can in good faith. But pessimistic about what the outcome would be for an offense committed a long time ago without physical evidence.

I did like that the ECF response included the point about relevant authorities. Not just because the ECF willing to be involved if requested, but also because there is only so much the ECF can do itself if there has been a crime. A person who has committed a serious crime should go to prison, the ECF does not have that power.

EDIT: I attributed the quote to Matt wrongly, apologies

[Mark Howitt]

Worldwide news now.

[Paolo Casaschi]

Completely agree with this tweet, FIDE has their priorities very wrong:

if FIDE wanted to protect women they could start by banning Ramirez and Gareyev "for up to 2 years while they investigate"

[NickFaulks]

Completely agree with this tweet, FIDE has their priorities very wrong:

if FIDE wanted to protect women they could start by banning Ramirez and Gareyev "for up to 2 years while they investigate"

The problem is that we are told that USCF has completed an investigation into the Ramirez case. FIDE prefers to leave such projects to the home federations, who should be better placed to carry them out.

You might not alone in feeling that the US response has been unsatisfactory, but FIDE could not step in without a serious row with USCF.

[Paolo Casaschi]

Completely agree with this tweet, FIDE has their priorities very wrong:

if FIDE wanted to protect women they could start by banning Ramirez and Gareyev "for up to 2 years while they investigate"

The problem is that we are told that USCF has completed an investigation into the Ramirez case. FIDE prefers to leave such projects to the home federations, who should be better placed to carry them out.

You might not alone in feeling that the US response has been unsatisfactory, but FIDE could not step in without a serious row with USCF.

If FIDE can hide behind procedures, then it could mean procedures are wrong.
Also, this comment does not explain how a player can be suspended from the national federation for an extended amount of time, without any consequence at the global level.

[Chris Goodall]

Why are we even discussing national federations carrying out their own investigations into criminal matters? Organizations that don't have the budget, skills, or authority to interview people under oath?

Write down what the accusers told you, give it to the police, job done. Conduct your own investigation only if you are 100% certain in advance what the outcome will be, otherwise you WILL be the subject of a complaint that you "botched the investigation" by "keeping it in-house" and "failing to notify the authorities".

[Roger Lancaster]

All very interesting but there's a fundamental difference that, in the US, Ramirez and Gareyev have each been identified as abusers by several women. That may not make them guilty beyond reasonable doubt (the criminal threshold) but in all likelihood it exceeds the civil threshold (balance of probabilities) which should be sufficient for bodies such as the USCF. In the UK, however, and as far as I am aware, no-one has yet been named as an abuser - and the rumour mill doesn't count. Until that changes, no-one is in a position to decide whether even the civil threshold is breached.

[NickFaulks]

Also, this comment does not explain how a player can be suspended from the national federation for an extended amount of time, without any consequence at the global level.

Yes, I do agree with that, provided the suspension is for an identified reason such as we are discussing, rather than simply because the player has fallen out with their federation ( which does happen ).

[Ian Thompson]

Also, this comment does not explain how a player can be suspended from the national federation for an extended amount of time, without any consequence at the global level.

Isn't that a choice that the national federation has made? They could have deregistered the player with FIDE making it very difficult for the player to take part in FIDE registered tournaments without first changing to another federation. I'm surprised the USCF hasn't done that with Ramirez as they've banned him for life; less so with Gareyev as he only has a 2 years suspension.

[Paolo Casaschi]

Also, this comment does not explain how a player can be suspended from the national federation for an extended amount of time, without any consequence at the global level.

Yes, I do agree with that, provided the suspension is for an identified reason such as we are discussing, rather than simply because the player has fallen out with their federation ( which does happen ).

Avoiding something like that and guarantee some transparency in their member organizations should be in my view a higher priority than banning transgender players while looking into transgender issues.
Again to the point of my initial post today, FIDE seems to have their priorities wrong.