Britbase Updates

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
Jon D'Souza-Eva
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by Jon D'Souza-Eva » Thu Jul 11, 2024 12:18 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:44 am
Once upon a time a congress held in Luton in 1975 entered into the press for, perhaps all the wrong reasons, with the final round accredited with the shortest game of chess ever played.

Can you name the competitors of that Round 5 game, reproduce the scoresheet, and if you don't mind, inform us how much the winner of the tournament took home with him?
Stewart Reuben might be able to help with all of those. I once won one of the Islington tournaments organised by Tony Gaffney and Ken Goodwyn by drawing by threefold repetition in six moves in the final round. Before the game I was on 5/5 and my opponent (who finished clear second) was on 4.5/5. I hasten to add this was a graded section (U160 maybe?) rather than an open.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:05 pm

"Ken Goodwyn"

Are you sure? I would guess at George Goodwin... I may be talking rubbish of course.

And you're right about Stewart!

Jon D'Souza-Eva
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by Jon D'Souza-Eva » Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:35 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:05 pm
"Ken Goodwyn" Are you sure? I would guess at George Goodwin... I may be talking rubbish of course.
Sorry, you're right of course - George Goodwin.
Edit: I dug around a little and, much to my surprise, it turns out that George wasn't his first name (it was his middle name). His first name was extremely unusual and unless you happen to know it, completely impossible to guess.
Edit again: Impossible to guess, unless you explore BritBase! George once won a magnum of Claret for being the (joint) highest placed Londoner in a tournament in Islington. The report of this, with his first name given, can be found on John's BritBase Chess site.

James Pratt
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by James Pratt » Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:56 pm

Whilst at the British Championship at Morecambe, 1981, I saw a poster for Ken Goodwin, as I think he spelled it, a comedian with a bashful smile. He was at the height of his fame some ten years earlier and came on the telly quite often. 'The Comedians' would be unlikely to air today.
James

Jon D'Souza-Eva
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by Jon D'Souza-Eva » Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:13 pm

James Pratt wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:56 pm
Whilst at the British Championship at Morecambe, 1981, I saw a poster for Ken Goodwin, as I think he spelled it, a comedian with a bashful smile. He was at the height of his fame some ten years earlier and came on the telly quite often. 'The Comedians' would be unlikely to air today.
James
When I was about ten years old I had a collecting autographs phase which lasted just a few months and Ken Goodwin (I felt sure it was spelt Goodwyn!) was the first one I got. He must have been doing some sort of show in Portsmouth. I think I got Clodagh Rodgers' the next evening. Anyway, that's the reason for me mis-remembering George Goodwin's name.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:07 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:05 pm
"Ken Goodwyn"

Are you sure? I would guess at George Goodwin... I may be talking rubbish of course.

And you're right about Stewart!
Nope but bear Stewart in mind.

Helpful clue: the winner is mistakenly attributed as England's first Grandmaster rather than the categorically distinct problemist Comins Mansfield.

Jon D'Souza-Eva
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by Jon D'Souza-Eva » Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:54 am

MJMcCready wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:07 am
Nope but bear Stewart in mind.
Helpful clue: the winner is mistakenly attributed as England's first Grandmaster rather than the categorically distinct problemist Comins Mansfield.
Part of your question was "Can you name the competitors of that Round 5 game". Well it was obviously Tony Miles and Stewart Reuben, who agreed a draw before the game started and submitted the result (signed scoresheets?) with no moves played. With this draw Tony Miles won the tournament outright. I have no idea what the first prize was or whether the tournament organisers refused to pay all or some of it.

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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by GrahamStuart » Fri Jul 12, 2024 10:35 am

Back in 2004 when I ran the original Hampshire Chess Website, John Jones supplied me with 133 games from the Portsmouth Evening News, for the period when he was the editor of the Chess Column "Chess Notes" (1960's, 1980's and 1990's). The other editors of this column were Jack Grant (Mr "Chess Notes"), Terry Hollington and Mike Drymond.

As advised at the time "The comments to the games are the original ones, which were not always by John and are acknowledged where applicable. These comments would have been made without access to any Chess Playing software, so there will be a few holes (up to you to spot them!)."

I thought I had lost these, along with most of the website, but with some assistance most of the material is now available. I will use these games on the Hampshire History Website, but there are a couple of games which are relevant for Britbase. In addition some of the Wilf Pratten Games now have additional information as well, such as the specific Hampshire Championship, but again I would like to check these first.





The Portsmouth Evening News currently ends at the end of 1961 on the British Newspaper Archives, unless there is a physical copy this will be a great source for Chess (particularly Hampshire) when the later years are scanned.

I do have the copies from Sept 76 to June 79 and will try and add these games to John's original ones sometime.
https://hampshirechesshistory.co.uk/chess-notes/

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Jul 12, 2024 5:31 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:07 am
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:05 pm
"Ken Goodwyn"

Are you sure? I would guess at George Goodwin... I may be talking rubbish of course.

And you're right about Stewart!
Nope but bear Stewart in mind.

Helpful clue: the winner is mistakenly attributed as England's first Grandmaster rather than the categorically distinct problemist Comins Mansfield.
So it wasn't the "naturalised" Jacques Mieses?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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MJMcCready
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:14 pm

Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:54 am
MJMcCready wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:07 am
Nope but bear Stewart in mind.
Helpful clue: the winner is mistakenly attributed as England's first Grandmaster rather than the categorically distinct problemist Comins Mansfield.
Part of your question was "Can you name the competitors of that Round 5 game". Well it was obviously Tony Miles and Stewart Reuben, who agreed a draw before the game started and submitted the result (signed scoresheets?) with no moves played. With this draw Tony Miles won the tournament outright. I have no idea what the first prize was or whether the tournament organisers refused to pay all or some of it.
It was reported in the local newspaper that he picked up £200

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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by John Saunders » Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:41 am

MJMcCready wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:14 pm
Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:54 am
MJMcCready wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:07 am
Nope but bear Stewart in mind.
Helpful clue: the winner is mistakenly attributed as England's first Grandmaster rather than the categorically distinct problemist Comins Mansfield.
Part of your question was "Can you name the competitors of that Round 5 game". Well it was obviously Tony Miles and Stewart Reuben, who agreed a draw before the game started and submitted the result (signed scoresheets?) with no moves played. With this draw Tony Miles won the tournament outright. I have no idea what the first prize was or whether the tournament organisers refused to pay all or some of it.
It was reported in the local newspaper that he picked up £200
Hopefully this particular quiz sequence has now reached its conclusion. Perhaps future quiz questions could be posed on the Chess History Trivia thread rather than here on BritBase Updates.
Personal Twitter @johnchess
Britbase https://www.britbase.info
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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by John Saunders » Sat Jul 13, 2024 6:03 am

GrahamStuart wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 10:35 am
Back in 2004 when I ran the original Hampshire Chess Website, John Jones supplied me with 133 games from the Portsmouth Evening News, for the period when he was the editor of the Chess Column "Chess Notes" (1960's, 1980's and 1990's). The other editors of this column were Jack Grant (Mr "Chess Notes"), Terry Hollington and Mike Drymond.

As advised at the time "The comments to the games are the original ones, which were not always by John and are acknowledged where applicable. These comments would have been made without access to any Chess Playing software, so there will be a few holes (up to you to spot them!)."

I thought I had lost these, along with most of the website, but with some assistance most of the material is now available. I will use these games on the Hampshire History Website, but there are a couple of games which are relevant for Britbase. In addition some of the Wilf Pratten Games now have additional information as well, such as the specific Hampshire Championship, but again I would like to check these first.

The Portsmouth Evening News currently ends at the end of 1961 on the British Newspaper Archives, unless there is a physical copy this will be a great source for Chess (particularly Hampshire) when the later years are scanned.

I do have the copies from Sept 76 to June 79 and will try and add these games to John's original ones sometime.
https://hampshirechesshistory.co.uk/chess-notes/
Graham, many thanks for posting these games and I look forward to seeing more games from this source in due course. Keep up the good work with your excellent website.

Though I already had scores of both those games, I noticed that the round numbers differed from what appears on BritBase. And I have the horrible feeling that, not only are the round numbers John Jones gives likely to be right and those on BritBase wrong, most of the other round numbers and exact dates given on BritBase for games played in the subsidiary sections at the 1967 British Championships are probably unreliable. This would have been one of the first files I uploaded to BritBase in about 1997 and I'm not even sure whether I input the games myself or took them from ChessBase as I was not yet in the habit of noting sources. I have tested this against a handful of results published in regional newspapers for players in that year's subsidiary sections and found that the games which appeared after the main championship games in the daily bulletin were not necessarily from that day's round but tended to be from the previous day's play, if not earlier. The good news is that the main championship games are unaffected - the round numbers and dates are (or should be) correct. But the round numbers and exact dates for other games will have to be removed unless I can find other sources which corroborate them. As Homer Simpson said when watching the local church burn down after his homemade rocket landed on it, "I can't feeling partially responsible for this." :oops:
Personal Twitter @johnchess
Britbase https://www.britbase.info
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MJMcCready
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by MJMcCready » Sat Jul 13, 2024 6:18 am

John Saunders wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:41 am
MJMcCready wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:14 pm
Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:54 am

Part of your question was "Can you name the competitors of that Round 5 game". Well it was obviously Tony Miles and Stewart Reuben, who agreed a draw before the game started and submitted the result (signed scoresheets?) with no moves played. With this draw Tony Miles won the tournament outright. I have no idea what the first prize was or whether the tournament organisers refused to pay all or some of it.
It was reported in the local newspaper that he picked up £200
Hopefully this particular quiz sequence has now reached its conclusion. Perhaps future quiz questions could be posed on the Chess History Trivia thread rather than here on BritBase Updates.
Me too. Apologies for posting in the wrong place.

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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by GrahamStuart » Sat Jul 13, 2024 10:57 am

John Saunders wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2024 6:03 am
GrahamStuart wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 10:35 am
Back in 2004 when I ran the original Hampshire Chess Website, John Jones supplied me with 133 games from the Portsmouth Evening News, for the period when he was the editor of the Chess Column "Chess Notes" (1960's, 1980's and 1990's). The other editors of this column were Jack Grant (Mr "Chess Notes"), Terry Hollington and Mike Drymond.

As advised at the time "The comments to the games are the original ones, which were not always by John and are acknowledged where applicable. These comments would have been made without access to any Chess Playing software, so there will be a few holes (up to you to spot them!)."

I thought I had lost these, along with most of the website, but with some assistance most of the material is now available. I will use these games on the Hampshire History Website, but there are a couple of games which are relevant for Britbase. In addition some of the Wilf Pratten Games now have additional information as well, such as the specific Hampshire Championship, but again I would like to check these first.

The Portsmouth Evening News currently ends at the end of 1961 on the British Newspaper Archives, unless there is a physical copy this will be a great source for Chess (particularly Hampshire) when the later years are scanned.

I do have the copies from Sept 76 to June 79 and will try and add these games to John's original ones sometime.
https://hampshirechesshistory.co.uk/chess-notes/
Graham, many thanks for posting these games and I look forward to seeing more games from this source in due course. Keep up the good work with your excellent website.

Though I already had scores of both those games, I noticed that the round numbers differed from what appears on BritBase. And I have the horrible feeling that, not only are the round numbers John Jones gives likely to be right and those on BritBase wrong, most of the other round numbers and exact dates given on BritBase for games played in the subsidiary sections at the 1967 British Championships are probably unreliable. This would have been one of the first files I uploaded to BritBase in about 1997 and I'm not even sure whether I input the games myself or took them from ChessBase as I was not yet in the habit of noting sources. I have tested this against a handful of results published in regional newspapers for players in that year's subsidiary sections and found that the games which appeared after the main championship games in the daily bulletin were not necessarily from that day's round but tended to be from the previous day's play, if not earlier. The good news is that the main championship games are unaffected - the round numbers and dates are (or should be) correct. But the round numbers and exact dates for other games will have to be removed unless I can find other sources which corroborate them. As Homer Simpson said when watching the local church burn down after his homemade rocket landed on it, "I can't feeling partially responsible for this." :oops:
Thanks John - I am hoping the round numbers are correct, but looking at these two games and the ones in the file the dates (certainly for these two games) probably relate to the date published in the Portsmouth Evening News and not the date the games were played. Not having the actual newspapers means I cannot check this for all of them, but I will need to check and amend these where I can determine the date the games were played. As both of these games had a date of 21 Sept 1967 and the tournament was 7th to 18th August this does stick out as the incorrect dates.

An an aside I very much enjoyed your recent new articles on the 1955 Birmingham Training Tournament, 1970 Northern Open and 1974 England v West Germany - Many thanks for all the great work you do on your site.

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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates

Post by John Saunders » Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:17 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2024 8:46 pm
I don't see any "Christmas Special" info - I have an idea I played in it..
Kevin - this message got 'lost in the post' - apologies. As far as I can see from published results, you didn't play at Hastings 1973/74 but you played in the New Year Special B section at Hastings 1974/75. All of your games from that event appear in the 1974/75 Hastings file.
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