Constructed drawn games
- Christopher Kreuzer
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Constructed drawn games
Is it possible to construct: (a) any game) and (b) a sensible game - where you reach the position of bare kings (or any other position where the game is instantly declared drawn) in the least possible number of moves? Or to put it another way, what is the quickest way you can reach that type of draw? I don't think it can be done sensibly in less than 40 moves, but I am sure it can be done in any number of silly ways. I will tentatively define "sensible" as moves that keeps the position evaluation (by a strong computer engine) within one pawn deficit for either side...
- IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Constructed drawn games
As far as I know, fastest known stalemate is move 10, fastest known bare kings is move 17, fastest known fivefold repetition is move 8. Don't know about sensible ones.
- Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Constructed drawn games
Thank you Jack. Found a discussion about this here:
https://chess.stackexchange.com/questio ... ng-endgame
Interesting!
https://www.wismuth.com/chess/chess.html
https://chess.stackexchange.com/questio ... ng-endgame
Interesting!
https://www.wismuth.com/chess/chess.html
And many other fascinating results, positions and 'proof' games.In December 2003, I wrote a program to search for chess games that are completely determined by the last move. Among other chess problems, the search uncovered this brain-teaser: Black mates White on Black's 5th move by playing a rook, but the rook itself does not attack White's king. How did the game go? (the solution is unique).
- Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Constructed drawn games
Oh dear.
I don't even want to think what the 840 possible mating moves are... (a rabbit hole I am happy not to explore). But it is strangely reassuring that the ability and motivation to explore such problems exists.
From Game-determining Moves by François Labelle.It turns out that Americans Stuart [Rachels], an IM and Alex [Fishbein], a GM are part of a group of very strong chess players led by Stuart who set out to find a (not necessarily unique) shortest game for each of the 840 possible mating moves without disambiguation.
I don't even want to think what the 840 possible mating moves are... (a rabbit hole I am happy not to explore). But it is strangely reassuring that the ability and motivation to explore such problems exists.
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Richard James
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Re: Constructed drawn games
If you're interested in synthetic games you should read this paper by George Jelliss.
https://www.mayhematics.com/p/syntheticgames.pdf
https://www.mayhematics.com/p/syntheticgames.pdf
- Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Constructed drawn games
Thank you, Richard. That is very interesting.
I am now rather engrossed in Labelle's page on the longest possible chess game:
https://www.wismuth.com/chess/longest-game.html
I am now rather engrossed in Labelle's page on the longest possible chess game:
https://www.wismuth.com/chess/longest-game.html
[Shh! Don't tell Peter Lalic!]The longest possible chess game is 8848.5 moves long.
- IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Constructed drawn games
I think I've solved the proof game mentioned earlier: 1.f4 h5 2.Kf2 Rh6 3.Kg3 Rf6 4.Kh4 e6 5.Kg5 Rh6#. Quite a tricky one.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Constructed drawn games
If that is the answer, what on earth was the question?IM Jack Rudd wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 9:53 amI think I've solved the proof game mentioned earlier: 1.f4 h5 2.Kf2 Rh6 3.Kg3 Rf6 4.Kh4 e6 5.Kg5 Rh6#. Quite a tricky one.
- Christopher Kreuzer
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- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
- Location: London
Re: Constructed drawn games
"Black mates White on Black's 5th move by playing a rook, but the rook itself does not attack White's king."
(It was always going to be a discovered check, which helps.)
(It was always going to be a discovered check, which helps.)