Times cryptic chess clue

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John Saunders
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by John Saunders » Thu Dec 26, 2024 11:10 am

This, from The Chambers Book of Cryptic Crosswords, received as a Christmas present, is not chessically perfect but made me smile:

"Every Lego record broken in country dance" (5,2,8)
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Paul Habershon
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Paul Habershon » Thu Dec 26, 2024 3:52 pm

John Saunders wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2024 11:10 am
This, from The Chambers Book of Cryptic Crosswords, received as a Christmas present, is not chessically perfect but made me smile:

"Every Lego record broken in country dance" (5,2,8)
Solution being one of our very own forumites, except he omits the last e. Not relevant here but the Times has recently relaxed its rule against living persons being solutions. The original dance man must be long gone and our forumite would need to be somewhat more famous for future inclusion anyway. Name solutions tend to be statesmen, artists, composers, authors and poets, rarely sportsmen. I cannot remember any chess players as solutions, though TAL is often implicated in the word play.

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John Clarke
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by John Clarke » Thu Dec 26, 2024 9:55 pm

Paul Habershon wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2024 3:52 pm
I cannot remember any chess players as solutions, though TAL is often implicated in the word play.
Rather strangely, the Daily Telegraph quick crossword - which doesn't normally include obscure words or names - once had "Alekhine" as a solution. My mother was doing it and asked me if there was a player of that name. At 11 or 12 I'd only just learned about him myself.
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

John Brewitt
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by John Brewitt » Tue Jan 28, 2025 3:33 pm

From today's The Times Cryptic:

"He'd often check blue pens make the grade." (7)

Simon Brown
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Simon Brown » Tue Jan 28, 2025 4:25 pm

I was just about to post myself! Quite tough, though knowing there is a chess angle makes it easier; it was the penultimate clue I solved.

Dragoljub Sudar
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Dragoljub Sudar » Tue Jan 28, 2025 4:40 pm

For thickos like me, who has never solved a cryptic clue, can you explain in idiot language how to solve this clue?

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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Richard James » Tue Jan 28, 2025 4:54 pm

Dragoljub Sudar wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2025 4:40 pm
For thickos like me, who has never solved a cryptic clue, can you explain in idiot language how to solve this clue?
I'll have a go.

A cryptic clue usually (but not always, there are other types) comprises a definition, often opaque, and usually at the beginning or the end of the clue, and an indication of the letters. That's what we have here.

The definition is at the beginning: "He'd often check". Who would often check? Why, a chess player. So we're looking for the name of a famous (to non-players) chess player.

The rest of the clue indicates the letters. The key word here is PENS: if you pen something in you put it inside. So the compiler is asking us to put a word meaning 'make the grade' (think about taking an exam) inside a word meaning 'blue' (think, in this case, about a shade of blue). If you've done this correctly, remembering that your answer will have 7 letters, you should have the name of a famous chess player.

The wording is, of course, deliberately misleading, tricking you into thinking of someone testing writing implements.

Dragoljub Sudar
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Dragoljub Sudar » Tue Jan 28, 2025 5:20 pm

Sky + Pass = Spassky.

Thanks Richard. Nicely explained.

I initially also associated 'grade' with chess.

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John Clarke
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by John Clarke » Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:01 pm

Sometimes you need "crossers" - letters already entered from solving other clues which intersect the one you're working on. I'd have needed them here, I think.
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Paul Cooksey » Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:03 pm

Richard James wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2025 4:54 pm
So we're looking for the name of a famous (to non-players) chess player.
Interesting Spassky qualifies. Would, say, Tal?

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:31 pm

"Interesting Spassky qualifies. Would, say, Tal?"

When I have met non-chessplayers that have been alerted (not by me) to my caissic proclivities, if they show any sign of interest, I ask which players they have heard of. I haven't done so recently, but the most frequent answers a few years ago were Fischer, Spassky, Karpov and Kasparov (although the latter two frequently got scrambled into "Karparov".

I even had a work colleague with the surname Caruana 10 years ago, and I said, "Any relation to Fabiano?", and she said, "Who's he?" She perked up a bit when I told her.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:32 pm

Back in the day the most famous "outside chess" was undoubtedly Capablanca, and even now a few elderly non-players might mention him.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Richard James
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Richard James » Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:49 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:03 pm
Richard James wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2025 4:54 pm
So we're looking for the name of a famous (to non-players) chess player.
Interesting Spassky qualifies. Would, say, Tal?
Tal is useful because he had a short name which appears in many longer words. He still makes occasional appearances in Crosswordland.

I've seen Ding (another short and useful name) a couple of times recently as well.

There's an assumption, I think that cryptic solvers are well read with pretty good general knowledge, which would include a basic knowledge of the game and the names of the world champions. They're also expected to have a basic knowledge of football, cricket, bridge etc..

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Paul Cooksey » Wed Jan 29, 2025 6:30 pm

Thanks Richard. I was thinking if solvers know a famous chess player is one of a handful of individuals the clue might be a bit easier than it first appears.

I have to admit I went through quite a list of players before I had one I could make rest of the clue fit.

Paul Habershon
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Re: Times cryptic chess clue

Post by Paul Habershon » Wed Jan 29, 2025 7:08 pm

The Times recently changed its Cryptic policy by allowing the name of a living person to be a solution. Spassky, still alive at 87, is an example. I rather regret the loss of this quirky tradition.

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