A Gross Mystery

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
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Gerard Killoran
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A Gross Mystery

Post by Gerard Killoran » Thu Jan 16, 2025 7:35 pm

I came across the following chess column and game, but can find no evidence for the tournament it's supposed to have been played in.
Victoria Daily Times , British Columbia - Canada 26-05-1973) p.16
A GAME FROM YESTERYEAR...
By
GEORGE KOLTANOWSKI
International Chess Master

A strong Greater Chicago Open was held in 1921. It was won by a young German Chess Master, Robert Gross, who beat out - and beat - famous U.S. Champion Frank J. Marshall. It was the most important triumph in Master Gross’ all-too-short chess career. Gross had been a pupil of great Grandmaster Dr Siegbert Tarrasch. He learned well and after coming to the U.S. after the First World War, he soon established himself as one of the leading masters in this country.

However, he learned that at that time it would be difficult if not impossible to make a living here as a professional chess master and quit after winning the Iowa Open in 1924.

For the last 50 years he has been living in Duluth, Minnesota; where he has taught violin and chess to many young aspirants.

I met him two years ago when I gave a simultaneous exhibition at the University of Minnesota. I could not help but think how sad it was that the climate for chess did not enable this man of near genius to achieve his formidable potential

Here is his most outstanding game.


From the FamilySearch website

https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/L ... -1894-1972
Robert Gross Center Right Iowa State Chess Tournament 1922 Marshalltown Iowa.jpg
Robert Gross Center Right Iowa State Chess Tournament 1922 Marshalltown Iowa.jpg (358.95 KiB) Viewed 2017 times
Brief Life History of Robert

When Robert Gross was born on 24 January 1894, in Munich, Bavaria, Germany, his father, Josef Moritz Gross, was 40 and his mother, Henrietta Pearl Wagner, was 29. He married Josephine Ivancich on 24 May 1928, in Boone, Boone, Iowa, United States. They were the parents of at least 1 son. He lived in Chicago, Cook, Illinois, United States for about 10 years and Duluth, St. Louis, Minnesota, United States in 1940. He died on 2 November 1972, in Bellevue, Sarpy, Nebraska, United States, at the age of 78, and was buried in Nuremberg, Bavaria, Germany.
A 'miserable worm' - Nigel Short

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:37 pm

Interesting that his body was brought back to Germany for burial. There are other (much later) tournaments called the "Greater Chicago Open" alongside the Illinois Open. Surely having the names of two of the participants help? If Marshall played, there should be some record of it. Unless the year is wrong?

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MJMcCready
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:54 am

I don't think these are of much help but may suspect misreportage is in play.

http://www.edochess.ca/locations/l39.html

https://brasilbase.pro.br/Frank.htm

http://www.edochess.ca/tournaments/t3294.html

As I am sure you know, Marshall was a had quite a name for himself, which should make find the traces of the past you are searching for, easier to locate.

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by Gerard Killoran » Fri Jan 17, 2025 4:57 pm

Gross is difficult to pin down. One of the few references I could find in the early 1920s was this from the American Chess Bulletin, v.17 (1920):

His opponent was a serious mathematician https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orrin_Frink

and had wins over such strong players as Kashdan and Kupchik https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=45951

American chess bulletin v.17 (1920.png
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A 'miserable worm' - Nigel Short

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MJMcCready
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:24 pm

We can safely assume then that his chess was not like his name then, and also gross.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:14 am

I can't find any of Gross' games. Is there any equivalent of Britbase for US players?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jan 18, 2025 12:32 pm

We know he quit in 1924. Do we know when he started playing and achieving prominence? There is one game! The one at the start of this thread.

It sounds like trawling through US newspapers might be able to make a start at a USbase. Might it be sensible to include Canada? Are there people in the US and Canadian chess history community who would be interested in that?

What other regions are there? Mexico, and Central and South American tournaments and games if not already well represented in chess databases?

Europe? Asia? Africa? Australia? New Zealand? Russia!!

Imagine trying to collate all the games published in Russian and Soviet newspapers and tournament bulletins, and trying to cross-reference with already published ones.

You begin to understand why John Saunders limited his scope to Britain and drew various boundaries within and around that.

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by Gerard Killoran » Sat Jan 18, 2025 2:35 pm

There is one tantalising mention here: https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/le ... d=23605631
Rob studied music with Finish conductor Tauno Hannikainen in Duluth, where he composed a symphony at age 11. He later studied with American composer, violinist and championship chess player, Robert Gross. Rob graduated from Syracuse University, enlisted in the army and later enjoyed a 42 year career as a violist in the Minnesota Orchestra.
Curiously another chess-playing musician called Robert was living in Duluth at the time, one Robert Zimmerman (later Dylan). However he left Duluth for Hibbing at the age of six.
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Richard James
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by Richard James » Sat Jan 18, 2025 5:01 pm

RGross1.png
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RGross2.jpg
RGross2.jpg (288.03 KiB) Viewed 1659 times
RGross3.jpg
RGross3.jpg (283.3 KiB) Viewed 1659 times

Jon D'Souza-Eva
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by Jon D'Souza-Eva » Sat Jan 18, 2025 5:22 pm

I wonder if Gross sometimes used the pseudonym Rudolph Ganz, or perhaps that was his birth name?

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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by Richard James » Sat Jan 18, 2025 5:29 pm

Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 18, 2025 5:22 pm
I wonder if Gross sometimes used the pseudonym Rudolph Ganz, or perhaps that was his birth name?
This is Rudolph Ganz: he appears to be a different chap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Ganz

Going back to the original post, I can't find any indication from Chicago newspapers that this tournament ever took place, but then Kolty wasn't the most reliable of sources.

Richard James
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by Richard James » Sat Jan 18, 2025 5:55 pm

Marshall gave several simuls at the Kenwood club. I wonder if the game was played in one of those displays.

Here's a rather strange article concocted by a sadly confused sub-editor (Chicago Tribune Tue, Nov 07, 1916)
RGross4.jpg
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Jon D'Souza-Eva
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by Jon D'Souza-Eva » Sat Jan 18, 2025 6:09 pm

Richard James wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 18, 2025 5:29 pm
Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 18, 2025 5:22 pm
I wonder if Gross sometimes used the pseudonym Rudolph Ganz, or perhaps that was his birth name?
This is Rudolph Ganz: he appears to be a different chap.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Ganz
Yes, but there is no mention of chess in that Wikipedia article. I wondered whether Gross used the name Rudolph Ganz when he won the tournaments in Iowa in 1922 and 1924 because Rudolph Ganz is recorded as the state champion in those years.
https://www.iowa-chess.org/iowa-champions

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jan 18, 2025 9:43 pm

Interesting link and possible pseudonym that Jon found. The article Richard found has two potential leads.

The daughter (Marta) in the USA - maybe try and find out if she had descendants (or is even still alive) and who the mother was. I presume no other children.

The other lead, may help to find Gross in German newspapers and sources. That he learnt some of his chess from Tarrasch is an exciting link.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: A Gross Mystery

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:18 pm

Care is needed not to get mixed up with the US-born musical composer Robert Arthur Gross (1914-1983)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Arthur_Gross

Our Robert Gross (1894-1972) appears to have spent most of his life from 1916 in Duluth, so why did he die in Nebraska and why was his body returned to Germany for burial? Maybe there are obituaries or death notices in the German press?

How reliable is the life summary that Gerard posted? It mentions a wife (Josephine Ivancich, m.1908) and "at least one son". Is that from a published source or pieced together by a (possibly amateur) family historian who may have mixed up people of the same name?

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