London Central YMCA (aka CentYMCA) Chess Club

[George Szaszvari]

No-one could be a member of every club in the 70s and 80s, and hence no-one is in a position to state which was the greatest. For me, Hackney Chess Club in the late 80s was perfect. Loads of chess players of my ability or slightly stronger, everyone went for a beer and curry after a match and, most importantly, there were lots of quirky characters (even by chess player standards) who were great company and who taught me that you don't have to be normal to survive. No club I've belonged to, before or since, measure up to Hackney.

Good point, but even if it was impossible to be a member of every club, some of us darned well tried! Many gypsy
types like me did "get around", in the nicest possible sense, of course ;0) at least as informal visitors, if not always
as bona fide members. As a member of Streatham & Brixton at various times, I recall they had a pretty good young
crowd for boozing (being above a pub it was just too easy) and often did the curry/Chinese afterwards. Hackney
was a great club, too, along those lines, and there must have been similar clubs like those all over the country.
However...(dramatic drum roll) ...how many clubs have there been where one could just wander in at almost any
time of the day, any day, and get out a chess set to play, or if alone just study, without having to spend money
apart from a nominal annual membership fee? Offhand, I recall Bayswater at the Serbian church crypt, the old
London CentYMCA in Endell St (and at the new building for a short while) and, to some extent, Hackney at that
Labour Union club barroom (how long did that last?). CentYMCA had the longest time span at that wonderfully
squalid venue in Endell St and did seem to have a special attraction for every kind of casual visitor, including
the bohemian and quirky characters, since, iirc, some of them just wandered in year after year without paying
a penny in membership fees! Such people, of course, were often on the dole without much spending money, so
rarely joined in the boozing or curry sessions afterwards (the cheap spaghetti joint, a favorite of Sandys Dickinson,
was an alternative in such cases). BTW I believe Mike Wills helped some of those people out financially when
membership was required to legitimize regular team participation.

[George Szaszvari]

Greetings to George and all other ex-YM members and friends. Reading this thread reinforces my impression that of all English clubs in the 70's and 80's, London Central YMCA was the greatest, for many reasons. I made many memorable friendships during that period. Subsequently, perhaps only Wood Green comes close in terms of cameraderie, although of course WG are the strongest English club side ever over a period of decades.

Howdy, Andrew!

There are a lot of faces that I can't put names to, but they all contributed to the camaraderie in one
way or another. Old welshman Spike, a neighbour and friend of Steve Cunliffe, enjoyed hanging out with
the chess crowd despite hardly playing the game. We drank many a beer together.
Didn't the strong Hungarian emigre Fertoszegi play for YMCA in some of the bigger matches in the 60s
and early 70s? I saw him play Stewart Rueben vs Islington in my early days at YMCA.
Quiet bespectacled Martin Hawley was a valuable member for many years.
Let us also not forget that Julian Hodgson as a child prodigy was at the YMCA for a while in the 70s.
Then there was Barlow (first name?) who was dying of cancer when I returned to YMCA in the 80s
(he liked my pithy "one liners").
Old man Mike Haque, a true gentleman, was a staunch YMCA regular who played a few games of
chess before going to the bridge table where Remi Tatur would sooner or later completely lose his
cool and verbally assault poor ol' Mike with screams of idiot, moron, etc, something that happened
almost on a nightly basis...until Mike passed away. The odd thing was that Remi away from the bridge
table was extremely affable and intelligent company.

[Simon Spivack]

Hackney at that Labour Union club

Hackney meeting at the local Labour Party club was the cause of a minor comedy when an Athenæum team played there. George will recall that Barkers has been a member of the Tory Party since the time of Disraeli. He was prepared to play in a match there; however, he refused point blank to contribute to enemy funds by adjourning with the rest of the team at the bar. I am afraid we refused to decamp to a more expensive tavern, which caused a one man exit. Thus Dickens in David Copperfield was wrong both in spelling and fact when he wrote about the willingness of Barkers. There are some bars that will never attract suitable marriage partners.

[George Szaszvari]

Hackney meeting at the local Labour Party club was the cause of a minor comedy when an Athenæum team played there. George will recall that Barkers has been a member of the Tory Party since the time of Disraeli. He was prepared to play in a match there; however, he refused point blank to contribute to enemy funds by adjourning with the rest of the team at the bar. I am afraid we refused to decamp to a more expensive tavern, which caused a one man exit. Thus Dickens in David Copperfield was wrong both in spelling and fact when he wrote about the willingness of Barkers. There are some bars that will never attract suitable marriage partners.

What a funny picture of Barkwill indignantly strutting his stuff! I'm digging into the memory banks since I might
have been there! Probably too boozed up or focussed on chess to have cared, anyway, but I love these kind
of stories. Thanks! BTW you've created a monster by starting that "what's in a name" thread!

[Simon Spivack]

What a funny picture of Barkwill indignantly strutting his stuff! I'm digging into the memory banks since I might have been there! Probably too boozed up or focussed on chess to have cared, anyway, but I love these kind of stories. Thanks! BTW you've created a monster by starting that "what's in a name" thread!

Ah, I'd better paint over the image of a Tory wastrel! It's not true.

Long, long ago, when George lived in Blighty and couldn't tell a Colt from a Magnum, he organised a match between English juniors and young Magyars. It was to be held in Londres, which the French insist is the name of the Great Wen. I can't recall whether the contest was official or not, but that was neither here nor there.

One duty was to procure equipment, which was tackled by ringing the secretary of a chess club that George happened to be a member of. I wasn't certain whether I could come in that day to lend out the sets, boards and clocks; furthermore, although my attitude has always been that a chess club should promote chess, I knew that not everyone would concur with the suggestion that the tiny risk of a loss, say, of a pawn or two, in the scale of things was neither here nor there. I therefore contacted another club official whom I knew would agree with me one hundred percent. Moreover, he would be near the club on lending day: that man was Barkers.

Of course the equipment could probably have been borrowed elsewhere, but it was one less headache for George.

[George Szaszvari]

Long, long ago, when George lived in Blighty and couldn't tell a Colt from a Magnum, he organised a match between English juniors and young Magyars. It was to be held in Londres, which the French insist
is the name of the Great Wen. I can't recall whether the contest was official or not, but that was neither here nor there.
One duty was to procure equipment, which was tackled by ringing the secretary of a chess club that George happened to be a member of. I wasn't certain whether I could come in that day to lend out the sets, boards and clocks; furthermore, although my attitude has always been that a chess club should promote chess, I knew that not everyone would concur with the suggestion that the tiny risk of a loss, say, of a pawn or two, in the scale of things was neither
here nor there. I therefore contacted another club official whom I knew would agree with me one hundred percent. Moreover, he would be near the club on lending day: that man was Barkers. Of course the equipment could probably have been borrowed elsewhere, but it was one less headache for George.

Right, we had several visits to and from the Magyar juniors. We also a did a couple of exchanges with Dutch juniors,
one supported by the Spaarbank sponsors of the 1990 Rotterdam tournaments (the GM event won by Korchnoi),
and Dulwich College hosting one home match, with Sir Stuart Milner-Barry and Old Alleynian Ray Keene turning
up to lend moral support. Some of these matches were with a mixture of Dulwich Prep and other south England
schoolkids, others more nationwide (e.g., Matthew Turner) with the informal blessings of the BCF, if not their full
logistical support. Getting British-Hungarian Society members to contribute a small sum helped one trip and Dan King
accompanied at least a couple of those matches for support and post mortem analysis/informal coaching. On one
of those trips young David Moskovich got a visit from a hitherto unseen relative in Slovakia, and I still have some
photos of the England-Austria-Hungary match in Szombathely with the very junior Luke McShane (just before he
won the u-10 world title) and Peter Leko fooling around like kids do!

Full marks to you, my dear Spivack, and the principled Barkers, for your support. Seemingly little things like borrowing
equipment sometimes make or break such projects when running things out of one's own pocket on a shoestring!
You really must bring Barkers Stateside so you can join me in riding some horses and blasting off some rounds with
various types of guns (with Daryl's permission, of course.) It was the nice barrister fellow (name?) who had reservations
about the safety of Atheneaum's equipment, but his fears proved largely unfounded, although several worn Dulwich
Prep chessmen got mixed in with the Atheneaum sets. I believe that I rectified that in due course to the satisfaction
of all concerned. BTW the politics and personalities in the organizing of junior chess were sometimes as "interesting"
and disappointing as those in adult chess, but most importantly the physical support of people like you and Barkers,
as well as DCPS Head (now retired) Hugh Woodcock, Bob Wade and Dan King, as well as our foreign counterparts,
went a long way to making all that possible!

[Simon Spivack]

You really must bring Barkers Stateside so you can join me ...

In the eighteenth century London's population was controlled by the demon gin. Nowadays it is managed by exile to Arizona and Blaydon Races country. Standards have dropped.

I haven't seen Martin for about four years, but he does travel up to London when he has to.

... blasting off some rounds with various types of guns (with Daryl's permission, of course.)

I am tempted to start a thread for George and Daryl in the Not Chess! forum. I am confident that Daryl will demonstrate that the NRA's reading of the Second Amendment is open to dispute. Should I call the thread "of guns and Endell Street"?

It was the nice barrister fellow (name?) who had reservations about the safety of Atheneaum's equipment, but his fears proved largely unfounded

It's a cruel world. Had I wished to say no, I'd have consulted with Steven the club's President. Instead I spoke to Barkers the Treasurer.

If a Camden Market junkie had relieved George of the equipment, I'd have been prepared to compensate the club. I expect Barkers would have, too. Even without this undeclared assurance, there was enough to keep going in any instance. Not all the paraphernalia was kept on the premises.

[George Szaszvari]

I haven't seen Martin for about four years, but he does travel up to London when he has to.

Oh, really? He tired of London (=life) too??? Where's he at now?

... blasting off some rounds with various types of guns (with Daryl's permission, of course.)

I am tempted to start a thread for George and Daryl in the Not Chess! forum. I am confident that Daryl will demonstrate that the NRA's reading of the Second Amendment is open to dispute. Should I call the thread "of guns and Endell Street"?

Don't bother, coz I only go beyond introductory pleasantries in such matters with people who have at least a modicum
of maturity and live and vote here. When you ponder the 2nd Amendment focus your thoughts around the words:
"...the right of THE PEOPLE..." in the context of countering elitism. In the meantime google "no guns for jews"....

It was the nice barrister fellow (name?) who had reservations about the safety of Atheneaum's equipment, but his fears proved largely unfounded

It's a cruel world. Had I wished to say no, I'd have consulted with Steven the club's President. Instead I spoke to Barkers the Treasurer.

Yeah, well, important people like Steven can be rather intergalactic at times, but, credit to the guy, he did
relent when faced with the wrath of fellow Tory Barkers.

[Malcolm Clarke]

My reply might not relate to the most recent items discussed on this topic, but there are certain things that have been discussed in this topic, that I still remember, even if it was a long time ago.

I was involved with London Central YMCA for the seasons 1981/82 to 1984/85. After that I only played for the club very occasionally, spending more time playing in the Civil Service League before moving away from London in 1988.

Since 1990 I have been on the committee of the Southampton Chess League, being secretary for 18 years, although I spend less time on chess than I used to.

In answer to the question raised by Daryl Taylor, I believe the team were the Jaguars, which was captained by Ian Coker when I was around. Bob Collins whom I still exchange Christmas cards with, captained another Middlesex league team

I have in fact seen Mike Wills twice since leaving London, both occasions being in the 21st century. I am actively involved with Eastleigh football club, and we twice played at Folkestone, although the two clubs are not in the same league any more.

During my time at the club we achieved a lot of success in the London League. The first team I believe lost the championship to Streatham by the narrowest of margins, the 4th team got promoted to division 4, and I captained the 5th team that won division 7. I also I believe took over from George as 3rd team captain midway through the season, and we achieved some good wins against the odds including beating Islington's first team,.and I think that Andrew's wife Alison also played for the team.

As for YMCA personnel I believe that club stalwarts Ian Barlow, Simon Le Blancq and Anita Rakshit sadly died at fairly similar times, and Sasha Kennaway also passed away. When I saw Mike Wills in 2005 he said he would be surprised if another stalwart Michael Crewdson was still alive. However there are still many I remember who are still active players, and there is a Mike Mouzouros who is making his name at poker, which I would assume to be the same person.

As for Sandys Dickinson, the people most likely to know his current situation are the people who are listed as living at the same residence in his 2002 entry, which is referred to on this forum.

I do in fact remember the Pierre Lunais v Mike Cresswell match.

Malcolm Clarke

[George Szaszvari]

I was involved with London Central YMCA for the seasons 1981/82 to 1984/85. After that I only
played for the club very occasionally, spending more time playing in the Civil Service League before moving away from London in 1988.

Wow...Malcolm... were you the skinny, shaved head guy in grey flannel jacket and trousers? BTW do you recall how
the Pierre Lunais v Mike Cresswell match went? I do remember the games with Mike as white consistently opening
1.e4 with Pierre playing the French (what else?) and Mike going into the two pawn sacrifice Alekhine line.

[Malcolm Clarke]

George - I know that Mike Cresswell won the first game, but after that I believe Pierre did a lot of preparation. I know very little about the openings that they played in the match, although I thought that when I played against Pierre he actually played the Philidor.

I did not think I had a shaven head (Maybe I should send you a recent photo). However funnily enough although I was thin then, on some recent occasions my BMI has exceeded 25, which would class me as being overweight.

Malcolm Clarke

[Jon D'Souza-Eva]

Mike was another Hackneyite and, if I recall correctly, used to invariably play the Alekhine against 1.e4. I noticed his name in the crosstable of the recent 4NCL rapidplay (near the bottom!)

[George Szaszvari]

George - I know that Mike Cresswell won the first game, but after that I believe Pierre did a lot of preparation. I know very little about the openings that they played in the match, although I thought that when I played against Pierre he actually played the Philidor.

iirc Pierre played both the French and Philidor (which is "French" anyway) and experimented with various solid
defences as he felt inclined... the match preparation became a bone of contention with Mike when he saw
a whole host of members flocking to make suggestions on how to beat his opening lines... Mike had a few
supporters, too, but he remained bitter....

I did not think I had a shaven head (Maybe I should send you a recent photo). However funnily enough
although I was thin then, on some recent occasions my BMI has exceeded 25, which would class me as being overweight.
Malcolm Clarke

Perhaps the shaven head was a one off home made hair cut... pictures like that tend to stick and override
other memories... as far as weight is concerned, I used to be as skinny as a rake, gradually became wiry, fit,
and pretty strong with regular training, but that has gradually changed with boozing, smoking, age (now 60),
married life, too much good food, and if 220lbs is probably a bit overweight for a 6 footer, I ain't complaining.
Best things I ever did were to give up smoking in the late 90s and keep up some regular exercise routines...

[George Szaszvari]

Mike was another Hackneyite and, if I recall correctly, used to invariably play the Alekhine against 1.e4. I noticed his name in the crosstable of the recent 4NCL rapidplay (near the bottom!)

Yeah, although it was obvious at the time, one evening in the Hackney Labour Union barroom Mike reiterated his
bitterness about the match with Pierre to me in no uncertain terms (probably because I was one of the people
helping out Pierre.)

[Simon Spivack]

In the eighteenth century London's population was controlled by the demon gin. Nowadays it is managed by exile to Arizona and Blaydon Races country. Standards have dropped.

I haven't seen Martin for about four years, but he does travel up to London when he has to.

Oh, really? He tired of London (=life) too??? Where's he at now?

Newcastle. Come to think about it, we met up more recently, at Bob Wade's funeral.

Yeah, well, important people like Steven can be rather intergalactic at times, but, credit to the guy, he did relent when faced with the wrath of fellow Tory Barkers.

This is somewhat harsh in my estimation. Steven has helped people in the past, he's someone I've got time for. I've never cared over much about someone's background, it's about the mensch as far as I'm concerned.

Steven has spoken favourably of some Tory policies to me. He probably has voted for them; however, I have my doubts that he has ever been a member of the party. We may be straying a little too far into what may be a private matter. I retailed the Barkers in Hackney josh because it's amusing, true and doesn't reflect badly on anyone. Martin has never been shy about revealing his membership of the Conservatives, even when the Major government was extremely unpopular. Still, some care should be shown in what is made public.

When I saw Mike Wills in 2005 he said he would be surprised if another stalwart Michael Crewdson (sic) was still alive.

Why guess? Some of the ace Internet detectives round here need to be retrained.

I recall that the late Mike Crewsden did what he could to help; club treasurer, or something like that. I was never a member of the YMCA, but did belong to Bayswater, as well as Islington. One time I had a long conversation with Mike about Tsuji Masanobu, whom Mike had been trying to track down at the end of the Pacific War. Mike spoke very highly of the book Japan's Imperial Conspiracy by David Bergamini. Mike was a true gentleman, a bit garrulous, but in the nicest possible sense, he did not seek to dominate conversations.

See also http://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/10130 ... 305_05.htm . If the link doesn't work then try or just search http://www.thecnj.com/archive.html .