Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
- Ben Purton
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
Proper Sexy chess here, the pawn is hyper poison!.
[i]I love sleep, I need 8 hours a day and about 10 at night[/i] - Bill Hicks
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AustinElliott
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
Shipov has some variations after 43 ...a3 (which Grischuk rejected), and says:
Gelfand has played 44 Ke3, and Grischuk has replied ...Be6 attacking the White R on c4. But the black passed pawn on a4 pawn is en prise...!
Does Grischuk have a mating net if White takes it? The obvious idea would seem to be
45 Ra4: Ke5 threatening Re2++
Other choices of Rook destination would seem to be c3 and c1. Which don't look desperately attractive.
Or what if White sacs the c4 R for the N on d4?
Shipov just suggested Gelfand had good chances of holding out, provided he didn't "fall into little traps".It seems the race [between a- and h-pawns] didn't lead to victory [for Black], but to prove that White would have to find no small number of finesses
Gelfand has played 44 Ke3, and Grischuk has replied ...Be6 attacking the White R on c4. But the black passed pawn on a4 pawn is en prise...!
Does Grischuk have a mating net if White takes it? The obvious idea would seem to be
45 Ra4: Ke5 threatening Re2++
Other choices of Rook destination would seem to be c3 and c1. Which don't look desperately attractive.
Or what if White sacs the c4 R for the N on d4?
- IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
45.Rxa4 Ke5 46.Re1 Rh2 (threatening ...Nc2+) looks pretty deadly.AustinElliott wrote:Shipov has some variations after 43 ...a3 (which Grischuk rejected), and says:Shipov just suggested Gelfand had good chances of holding out, provided he didn't "fall into little traps".It seems the race [between a- and h-pawns] didn't lead to victory [for Black], but to prove that White would have to find no small number of finesses
Gelfand has played 44 Ke3, and Grischuk has replied ...Be6 attacking the White R on c4. But the black passed pawn on a4 pawn is en prise...!
Does Grischuk have a mating net if White takes it?
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AustinElliott
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
Crikey - 45 e5+ from Gelfand! It's all going off!
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AustinElliott
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
Grischuk has only 9 min left to the next time control. Is his lack of time going to be a factor again? Shipov was hinting as much after Grishuk's protracted think on move 42.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
After 48 h6, there's an immediate draw with 48 .. Nf5+, but do you play for more with either Rb8 or first Re2+ and then Re8?AustinElliott wrote:Grischuk has only 9 min left to the next time control. Is his lack of time going to be a factor again? Shipov was hinting as much after Grishuk's protracted think on move 42.
(edit after seeing the move played) or use the Knight as well with Ne6+ (/edit)
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Fri May 20, 2011 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AustinElliott
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
Wow.
45 ...Ke5:
46 Rc5:+ Bd5
47 Rd5:+ Kd5:
48.h6
So now Grischuk has a whole N for a P, and still has his a-pawn. But Gelfand's h-pawn has made it to h6, and Grischuk has no long-range Bishop to watch it with. Grischuk could exchange his N for the White h-Pawn now... I'm sure someone could tell us if the resulting R ending would be drawn... or can Grischuk stop the h-pawn AND force White to give up the R for the a-pawn?
48 ...Re2+
Grischuk now down to 3 min on the clock..
49 Kf4 (forced) Ne6+
..the checks must be easy moves in time pressure, but are they the best?
WRT to Roger's last, looks like Grischuk was going for more...
Gelfand now has plenty of time to ponder where to put his King.
45 ...Ke5:
46 Rc5:+ Bd5
47 Rd5:+ Kd5:
48.h6
So now Grischuk has a whole N for a P, and still has his a-pawn. But Gelfand's h-pawn has made it to h6, and Grischuk has no long-range Bishop to watch it with. Grischuk could exchange his N for the White h-Pawn now... I'm sure someone could tell us if the resulting R ending would be drawn... or can Grischuk stop the h-pawn AND force White to give up the R for the a-pawn?
48 ...Re2+
Grischuk now down to 3 min on the clock..
49 Kf4 (forced) Ne6+
..the checks must be easy moves in time pressure, but are they the best?
WRT to Roger's last, looks like Grischuk was going for more...
Gelfand now has plenty of time to ponder where to put his King.
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AustinElliott
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
Shipov's analysis is interesting. He says taking the a4 pawn earlier would have drawn, as after 45.Rxa4 Ke5 White could still draw by saccing the R for the N on d4 and then playing Kf3. He states that the point is that the advancing White R pawn would mean White would eventually win the d4 pawn too.
50 Kg3 Nf8
So now h7 forces Black to trade the N for the White RP.
51 h7 it is ....Nh7:
52. Rh7: a3
53. Kf3 Re1
..now where's an endgame expert when you need one to tell you if this is definitely a theoretical draw?
Edit: The tenor of Shipov's comments suggest he thinks this is a stone draw
50 Kg3 Nf8
So now h7 forces Black to trade the N for the White RP.
51 h7 it is ....Nh7:
52. Rh7: a3
53. Kf3 Re1
..now where's an endgame expert when you need one to tell you if this is definitely a theoretical draw?
Edit: The tenor of Shipov's comments suggest he thinks this is a stone draw
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
According to the tablebases, drawn at move 52 after the sac of Knight for pawn on h7 .
http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html
I expect they will play for a bit, as there's only a limited choice of drawing moves for Gelfand.
http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html
I expect they will play for a bit, as there's only a limited choice of drawing moves for Gelfand.
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AustinElliott
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
Cheers Roger
Aaaaand: Draw Agreed after move 58.
Final position:
White R on a7, King on d4 and pawn on d3
Black R on a1. King on b7 and pawn on a2.
Thinks: As long as the White K stays ahead of the P on the d-file, the Black R can never get out of a1 by giving check. And the Black K can neither "chase" the White R off the a-file to make time for the R to move without dropping the a-pawn .. or shift the White K off the d-file. So the White R just goes up and down the a-file..Draw. Is that about right (calling people who can play endgames?)
Guess that game was what you'd call "a hard fought struggle".
PS That is the first time I've ever followed a chess game live online, so you'll have to forgive me the amateur commentator act.
PPS And can you tell I last played an endgame long before the days of engines and tablebases?! And not very well, at that.
Aaaaand: Draw Agreed after move 58.
Final position:
White R on a7, King on d4 and pawn on d3
Black R on a1. King on b7 and pawn on a2.
Thinks: As long as the White K stays ahead of the P on the d-file, the Black R can never get out of a1 by giving check. And the Black K can neither "chase" the White R off the a-file to make time for the R to move without dropping the a-pawn .. or shift the White K off the d-file. So the White R just goes up and down the a-file..Draw. Is that about right (calling people who can play endgames?)
Guess that game was what you'd call "a hard fought struggle".
PS That is the first time I've ever followed a chess game live online, so you'll have to forgive me the amateur commentator act.
PPS And can you tell I last played an endgame long before the days of engines and tablebases?! And not very well, at that.
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AustinElliott
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
Shipov calls this one "a painful miss for Grischuk" in his live analysis, suggesting Grischuk was in his opening preparation 'til deep in the game, and also that he should have converted. And that Gelfand did a nifty job holding out.
So perhaps another moral victory to the older man.
On the other hand, though... two draws, two games nearer rapidplay/blitz, which consensus seems to be is Grischuk's strategy.
So perhaps another moral victory to the older man.
On the other hand, though... two draws, two games nearer rapidplay/blitz, which consensus seems to be is Grischuk's strategy.
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Mick Norris
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
Austin
Very entertaining
Gelfand has confirmed that he is difficult to beat, Grischuk has confirmed he often gets into time trouble and generally plays well in it, although maybe not so much today?
I would expect at least 1 of the next 4 to be decisive, interesting part now is whether they stick to the openings they used in the first 2 games
Very entertaining
Gelfand has confirmed that he is difficult to beat, Grischuk has confirmed he often gets into time trouble and generally plays well in it, although maybe not so much today?
I would expect at least 1 of the next 4 to be decisive, interesting part now is whether they stick to the openings they used in the first 2 games
Any postings on here represent my personal views
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Mick Norris
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
More analysis hereAustinElliott wrote:Shipov calls this one "a painful miss for Grischuk" in his live analysis, suggesting Grischuk was in his opening preparation 'til deep in the game, and also that he should have converted. And that Gelfand did a nifty job holding out.
http://www.thechessmind.net/storage/che ... 11_f_2.htm
Any postings on here represent my personal views
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AustinElliott
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
Cheers Mick. Though I can't quite tell if you're being ironic. ..!Mick Norris wrote:Austin
Very entertaining![]()
Thanks to Warren K too.
And I did manage to comprehensively avoid working.
Just remembered I once thought of going into business "live reporting" scientific conferences and the lectures at them, but chess games seem more fun. Though the need to be a high-standard chess player is a bit of a problem.
Talking of which... looking at the contrasts between what I said, what Jack said, and Shipov's analysis reminds me of one of my favourite games in David Bronstein's 200 Open Games, where he imagines what players of different standards would say about the same position and how to continue the game. The game in question is Bronstein-Gligoric, Moscow 1967.
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Mick Norris
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Re: Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011
Not at all, nice to see the enthusiasmAustinElliott wrote:Cheers Mick. Though I can't quite tell if you're being ironic. ..!Mick Norris wrote:Austin
Very entertaining![]()
Any postings on here represent my personal views