British Chess Championships 2011

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
David Sedgwick
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:39 am

Adam Raoof wrote:I will be the first to suggest that Whitley Bay will be somewhere between 800 and 850 entries, but we might get many more new players to that event as it is on the ferry link to Amsterdam!
I think it's very difficult to predict the impact of the overlap with the London 2012 Olympics.

Adam Raoof wrote:The other thing is that the figures include players several times if they took part in more than one event. I would like to know the number of unique entries in the future as that, for me, would be an interesting statistic.
At one time the number of entrants was measured in that way, as the number of different people. Stewart Reuben changed this in the early 1980s.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Adam Raoof » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:52 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Adam Raoof wrote:I will be the first to suggest that Whitley Bay will be somewhere between 800 and 850 entries, but we might get many more new players to that event as it is on the ferry link to Amsterdam!
I think it's very difficult to predict the impact of the overlap with the London 2012 Olympics.
I did think about that before giving my predicted numbers. My guess is that most people will be watching the events on television, and we will make sure nobody misses the coverage. Unless you have tickets to attend an Olympic event I think you would be mad to stay in London (they are already announcing disruption on the underground and rail network a year ahead of time) and every incentive to travel to Whitley Bay and enjoy the chess!
Adam Raoof IA, IO
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Stewart Reuben
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Stewart Reuben » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:22 am

I did indeed changing the listing to number of tournament entries from number of different players. The former statistics looks more impressive to the media. But neither is complete.
A large number of people came this year for the day due to the ease of travelling.
I only once made an effort to determine the number of people the event brings to the locality. It is very difficult, children bring parents and vice versa and husbands wives. It used to be that people took their summer holiday in the area and visited the chess only on rainy days. I have no idea whether anybody still does that. In 1982 Torquay told us we changed occupancy rate from 85% to 95%. For hoteliers that extra percentage is nearly all profit.

There is a large screen TV in the Whitley Bay venue. That is essential for 2012.
Stewart Reuben

Alex McFarlane
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Alex McFarlane » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:11 pm

The results of the surveys carried out at this year's British. The Questionnaires are given at the end.

British Championships 2011 Survey Results and Comments
General Survey Non-Junior Events
Grading Championships
23 U180 FIDE Rated 37 Responses
19 U160 Fide Rated
12 U140 FIDE Rated
13 U120 FIDE Rated
29 current bands reasonable
1 bands should be altered

Major Open
25 U2200 should enter even if qualified for British
4 Conditions for foreign players
20 No conditions for foreign players
23 IM norms available
8 9 day event
9 Maximum rating limit imposed

am & pm Opens
23 FIDE rated
6 Not FIDE rated
10 Equal strength sections when numbers demand
13 Split by grading bands
9 Grading restricted non champ section
14 continue current format

General
1 only played because of top players
35 would have played anyway
9 want evening blitz events
11 want varied social calendar
9 would pay for adult coaching
1 would pay for additional junior coaching


Unfortunately no survey of junior events took place
 
Championship Survey
Responses 44
Acceleration Pairing information
9 strongly oppose 1 Use phone
8 oppose 40 Internet
12 don't care 5 playing hall
8 agree 2 don't know
5 strongly agree 2 Object to removal

Qualifying Commonwealth Championships
23 Qualifying good incorporating British
15 too many qualifiers 1 not play
36 IMs automatic qualification 10 Reservations
17 FMs automatic qualification 31 play
24 WIM automatic qualification
7 WFM automatic qualification

11 Commonwealth players in for 2013
20 Commonwealth out
2 Shorter session

Senior Survey
Incremental time Returns 44
18 Yes
13 No
13 Indifferent

U1800 Senior
21 popular addition
16 detract from senior champ
5 play in both
9 play in U1800

Over 75 Title Title Suggestions
31 Yes Veteran 12
12 No Super Senior 2
British Over 75 4
British Senior Womens Title Most Senior 1
23 Yes Doyen 1
19 No

Session length
25 6h
11 5h
8 4h

 
Comments
There is a strong desire for the U180 and U160 Grading Championships to be FIDE rated. This will probably be implemented though decisions will need to be taken as to whether FIDE or national rating will take precedence. The Morning and Afternoon Opens will also be considered for FIDE rating.
Splitting the Graded Championships into sections would mean joint Champions, possibly on different scores. It is doubted if this would be generally accepted.
There was some demand for a further U100 Championship which will be considered.
It is very likely that players Under 2200 who qualify for the British will be allowed the option of competing in the Major Open.
A contradictory result of the survey was that players would like IM norms available in the Major Open but were unwilling to fund the only way that could be done without weakening the Championship i.e. by offering conditions to foreign players.
There was little support for a 9 day event though there were some suggestions involving amalgamation of the Afternoon Opens.
There is some support for having evening events. It is hoped that greater local involvement in 2012 will allow for more evening events and perhaps some organised ‘sightseeing’.
The 5 Day Opens need further consideration particularly when a large entry is received. Published grading prizes is a potential step.
The situation regarding the use of Accelerated Pairings in the Championship was unclear.
It seems likely that all (W)GMs and (W)IMs will be allowed automatic entry to the event. It is unlikely that this concession will be extended to FMs. There were a number of comments that WFMs would require a minimum rating.
It is likely that the answerphone giving pairings will no longer be available. An ‘emergency’ phone contact will replace it for players with a problem over this.
The idea of inviting Commonwealth players to participate in the Championship during 2013 was rejected. However, should the Commonwealth Championships be held in Britain in the near future then most would participate if the British Championship was incorporated into that event.
There is general feeling that qualification procedures are reasonable but some feeling exists that too many qualify. Qualification via a Grand Prix system is being considered.
It is likely that an experimental Incremental time may be introduced into the Senior Championship for 2012. There was strong support for the introduction of a British Veteran title for the top placed over 75. This may subsequently lead to an additional event! There were a number who expressed concern that a Senior Woman Champion title would be won by default. If it is introduced then the player would require to score a minimum of 3/7 to overcome these reservations.
An additional tournament for ‘more experienced’ players taking place during the first week is a possibility but it must be marketed in such a way as not to detract from the main senior event. For this reason it is unlikely to give a title initially.
Significant restructuring is unlikely to take place before 2014 and after the 100th Championship.
Answers to questions raised by respondents
It is likely that the Jan/Feb grading list will be used for future events. Using a later list is not likely to be viable for first week events at least and a consistent approach is best.
Consideration will be given to holding the U8 event in a separate room. This will allow more supervision of players and accompanying adults and minimise disruption due to time scrambles in the main hall.
A grading restricted 11 round morning event is a suggestion worth further consideration.
It was suggested that the top players should be on a stage. Whilst this would help create an aura it would not be popular with a number of spectators who prefer to get closer to the boards.
It is unfortunate that control of the temperature at this current venue was so difficult. I doubt if Stewart predicted such warm weather in Sheffield when making the booking. Parking was a problem but public transport was excellent. Holiday venues will always be the preferred option but occasional visits to cities does give variety. Next year’s venue is air conditioned.
Triple NCR scoresheets are always a problem. Unfortunately we have been unable to find a way round this problem. We should certainly advise players to use ballpoint pens.
Next year’s choice of a northern venue was deliberate. Accommodation in the south is likely to be difficult to obtain and/or expensive due to the Olympic games. 2013 will be Torquay. The event is duty bound to move around the country.
Unrated and junior players in the graded championships is always a bit problematic. Juniors have recently been allowed to compete again as it is felt the grading system for them is now much more accurate. Unrated players do go through additional checks.
It is expected that the free coaching of juniors will continue. Nick Nixon appreciates the favourable comments he receives. An extension of official coaching given may be considered.

Finally thank you on behalf of all the organisers for the many compliments received.
 
 
British Championships 2011

Name (not required) ………………………………………………………………………………………….
Rating – Please tick appropriate box
2400+ 2300-2399 2200-2299 2000-2199 Below 2000

Please read the other side before completing these questions.
1. Pairing are accelerated for three rounds.
I strongly oppose the pairings produced
I oppose the pairings produced
I do not care which system is used
I agree with the pairings produced
I strongly agree with this system

2. Please tick all statements that you agree with
The current qualifying system is good The current qualifying system allows too many qualifiers
All IMs should be allowed to enter All FMs should be allowed to enter
All WIMs should be allowed to enter All WFMs should be allowed to enter
For the 100th Championship in 2013 Commonwealth players should be allowed to enter For the 100th Championship in 2013 Commonwealth players should not be allowed to enter
I would prefer a shorter time control

3. The answer phone is used less and less. It can be a significant expense in some venues (e.g. installing dedicated phone line). Please answer the following
I use the phone line to get my pairing
I use the Internet to get my pairing
I go to the playing hall to get my pairing
I do not know in advance who I am playing
I would object to the removal of the answerphone service

4. 2012 will see the British in North Tyneside and 2013 (probably) in Torquay. There is the possibility of incorporating the event into the Commonwealth Championships for one year only.
I would not play in such an event
I would have reservations about playing in such an event
I would participate in such an event

Senior Survey
Name ……………………………………………………………………………………… (if you wish)
1. Would you like an incremental time control as used in the British Championship?
Yes No Indifferent

2. The possibility of holding a 5 round U1800 Senior event with a four hour session in the mornings of the first week is being considered. Please select the most appropriate comments.
Such an event would be a popular addition
Such an event would detract from the main Senior Championship
I would consider playing in both events
I would play in the U1800 event

3. With the increasing age of the population there is scope for having a title for the top player aged over 75. Do you think that appropriate?
Yes No
What title should be given to such a Champion?

………………………………………………………………………………………

4. Should there be a British Ladies Senior title introduced?
Yes No

5. Which length of session do you prefer? Please tick.
Six hours
Five hours
Four hours



 
British Championships 2011 General Survey
Name (optional) …………………………………………………………………………………….. Section ………………………….
Please tick ALL that you think should apply
Grading Championships (U120,U140,U160,U180)
The U180 should be FIDE rated
The U160 should be FIDE rated
The U140 should be FIDE rated
The U120 should be FIDE rated
The grading bands used look reasonable
The grading bands should be altered

Major Open (MO). The status of the Major Open has declined in recent years, mainly due to the increased number of FIDE rated events. How can its status be enhanced?
Players rated under 2200 who qualify for the British should be allowed to enter the MO
Foreign players should be offered conditions to enter
Foreign players would be welcome but should not be offered conditions
There should be the possibility of IM norms available
The MO should be a 9 day event
There should be a maximum rating limit on entrants

The non championship second week afternoon and morning 5 day events are proving very popular.
These events should be FIDE rated
These events should NOT be FIDE rated
These events should be split into sections of about equal strength
These sections should be split into grading bands if the numbers allow
There should be a grading restricted section for U160 (U1800) players
The current format should continue

We are always trying to improve the popularity of the Championships. Please indicate which would apply in your case.
I only played this year because of the top players in the Championship
I would have played anyway but appreciate the effort made to get the top players
I would like a blitz event held most evenings
I would like a varied social events calendar
I would welcome and pay for adult coaching if available
I would welcome and pay for additional one-one junior coaching if available
Other comments
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:17 am

Alex McFarlane wrote:
Senior Survey

Session length
25 6h
11 5h
8 4h
I don't really understand why you don't bring the Seniors in line with all the other afternoon sessions as 7 hours (with increment). Players in the event have experienced sessions that length for approaching 20 years in the British or Major Open, the 4NCL or Hastings. It might avoid the odd problem where a player loses on time at move 60 thinking it's a seven hour session when it's actually six.

Alan Burke

Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Alan Burke » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:10 am

Roger, I would hope your comment of ... "It might avoid the odd problem where a player loses on time at move 60 thinking it's a seven hour session when it's actually six." doesn't mean you think that the age of some of the senior players might make them not 'as aware' of things as they once were ??? lol

Personally, I would think it better for the players in the Senior Championship to decide which time limits they prefer.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:11 am

7 hours is too long for Seniors for medical reasons. 40/90 all in 30 + 30seconds per move cumulative is a more efficient use of the time than 40/2 all in 1. Also it prepares the players for the European Team Championship.
That I got totally confused is no reason to go to 7 hours. Quickplay finishes is totally absurd for anybody, even the U8s. Even morning events would be better off with say all in 110 + 10 seconds cumulative.

Could Alex not have expressed the material in a more confusing way? Why not give the questions and the responses alongside?

Stewart Reuben

Alex McFarlane
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Alex McFarlane » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:13 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:Could Alex not have expressed the material in a more confusing way?
Of course I could. But I don't understand why you would have wanted it thus.
Stewart Reuben wrote:Why not give the questions and the responses alongside?
Time. I'm currently working on three other events. Regard the questionnaires as an appendix.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 am

Alan Burke wrote:Personally, I would think it better for the players in the Senior Championship to decide which time limits they prefer.
Exactly. I wasn't given the choice of a seven hour session with increments. If by some accident of playing well, I get a qualification place for the British next year, I may have a three way choice.

Paul Habershon
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Paul Habershon » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:12 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Alex McFarlane wrote:
Senior Survey

Session length
25 6h
11 5h
8 4h
I don't really understand why you don't bring the Seniors in line with all the other afternoon sessions as 7 hours (with increment). Players in the event have experienced sessions that length for approaching 20 years in the British or Major Open, the 4NCL or Hastings. It might avoid the odd problem where a player loses on time at move 60 thinking it's a seven hour session when it's actually six.
Several seniors at Sheffield were disappointed that the questionnaire did not invite opinion about a morning session. (This was only the second year of afternon play). The session length question implied afternoon play only, so it's not surprising that 4h got only 8 votes. Many seniors would like to spend more time spectating the Br. Ch. games both in the hall and the commentary room. Morning play also makes attendance more attractive for spouses/partners/family, who may look forward to the player's company for the rest of the day away from the chess.

I know that some seniors will consider 4h too short, but I feel that argument is outweighed by the above points. After all, it is longer than some county matches and also an incremental time limit may alleviate fears of impossibly frantic finishes.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:31 pm

When the Seniors was all but dead I asked people what they wanted and the event was changed to the morning and 7 days, when I was not yet a senior. But it never fitted in well having a session longer than 4 hours, unless there was a separate room as in Great Yarmouth or separate area as in Torquay.
That discussion was now a long time ago. The number of entries for the Seniors is at an all-time high. Thus it may be that more Seniors prefer afternoon play. I certainly do. There is a habit of providing a questionaire where people are nudged towards the way the person preparing the questions wants.
An increment of 30 seconds would not work for 4 hour sessions. All in 90 plus 30 seconds per move is too fast for Seniors (in my view) and would not allow enough time between the morning and afternoon round. I reiterate 40/90 all in 30 plus 30 seconds per move would be ideal and is used all over the world for many, many events. That forces an afternoon event.
Stewart Reuben

Alex Holowczak
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:36 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:When the Seniors was all but dead
They still are "all but dead", aren't they? :lol:

Ken Norman
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Ken Norman » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:42 pm

I agree with Stewart Reuben that the time limit of 40moves in 90minutes followed by all the moves in 30 minutes with a 30 second increment from move one is the best time control for the British Seniors Championship.
This time control was used in the European Seniors Championship at Courmayeur and the European Seniors Team Championship at Thessaloniki. I played in both competitions and found this time control very satisfactory.

I do not understand Paul Habershon’s point about the families of the competitors in the British Seniors. Surely the solution is for the wives, girlfriends etc to come and watch the games in the British Championship then they will be on the spot when the player’s game is finished.


Ken Norman

Paul Habershon
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Paul Habershon » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:42 am

My point about wives/partners etc. is that they may have no interest in chess, but if their chessplayer is in a morning tournament they have to wait only until 1330 (often much earlier) and then have the bulk of the day left to go out and about together. This scenario does not apply to me, but I was aware in Sheffield of several seniors' partners being around and I don't think many wanted to watch the Br. Ch. games. It's not the same being together in the morning when the shadow of the player's afternoon game is likely to be a distraction. It's a pity that we cannot return to the Great Yarmouth (2007) compromise of a 6-hour session in our own room starting at 0930. I understand that a separate arbiter would be needed even if a room were available, though surely an arbiter might normally be needed only in cases of time trouble.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Chess Championships 2011

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:44 pm

The latest BCM has a one page review of the first three rounds of Sheffield. The sponsors and President are mentioned, including individuals connected with the sponsors. There's no reference to you know who.

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