Hastings

[JustinHorton]

My problem with Matthew's once-a-game theory is ... for that to be true, wouldn't the player need to know in advance, as it were, when to use the computer? We can point at a game afterwards and say "that would have been the time when the computer would have won the game for me" - but how do you know that during a game? It's perhaps a very easy ace-in-the-hole to waste

I wonder whether there could be two levels for raising suspicions about computers. A formal complaint would entail penalties for the accuser if the claims turned out to be groundless - but at the same time it might to be possible to raise suspicions informally with the arbiters such that players are monitored. (The trouble is of course that that's a very easy option to abuse and you can imagine half the players being moitored before a tournament is over!)

I think Matthew's very likely right about the potential for a big-name cheat to be caught before too long and of course the publicity consequences for chess will be appalling - given that much of the public thinks computers have killed chess anyway. I also imagine that there will be many instances of computer use at tense moments in vital club matches and lower-level tournaments. I really don't know what to do about it at that level, swingeing punishements for those detected aside.

In some ways the worst thing is going to be the absence of trust. I commented on another thread that I personally go to the toilet a lot more during a game than most people (weak innards, weak nerves) and I'm sure sometimes opponents must get suspicious. And who can blame them?

[Matthew Turner]

Justin,
I am talking about an already strong player using a computer to cheat (allegations are from time to time made against Topalov for example). It is perfectly feasible that such a player would (often) know when the critical moment in a game had occurred and use the computer at the appropriate moment, so once a game might well be enough to make a very significant difference.
I am afraid that the idea of two levels of raising suspicions is simply unworkable. Some players are deliberately and cynically using accusations of cheating to unsettle their opposition and you would end up with a situation where two controllers were 'keeping an eye on' 50 competitors.

[Matthew Turner]

Looks like Kurnosov has a healthy lead now. I knew once he drew with me in the Summer his career would never look back!

[Maxim Devereaux]

I also agree with Matthew regarding the chances of at least a well-known GM, if not a 2700+ being caught cheating at some point - I think it is only a matter of when, not if. That said, I don't really agree with this once-a-game idea either - since leaving the playing area (including bathrooms, smoking area, refreshments area) is expressly forbidden, I think this behaviour is likely to be far more noticeable than other methods.

I would also question the psychology of the cheat - if they are prepared to do this they will want to extract maximum benefit from it (for an acceptable level of risk of detection), so I think that if a 'reliable' method can be found, there will be an almost overwhelming temptation to use it for very many moves.

There have, in fact, been allegations of computer cheating made against someone at the tournament I'm currently playing in Norway as well, but although the behaviour that led to this does pose a few questions, I'm not going to name names, both because the case is still sub judice, and because I don't think it deserves to be made any more public than it already is until it has some real evidence to back it up.

I would just point out, that in these days of DGT boards and internet transmissions, it would be remarkably easy to cheat with the help of an accomplice, who can see the opponent's move as soon as it is played, and can then send Fritz's recommendation via (for example) text message. The recipient's phone is on silent, and simply needs to be discreetly checked away from the board, not necessarily in the bathroom (or I'm sure there could be a higher tech alternative, in the form of a miniature in-ear Bluetooth speaker and automatic playing of received messages).

Maxim

[James Coleman]

There was a case of a player in Dubai last year who tried the text message from mate watching the transmission / mobile on silent thing, but rather stupidly left the mobile between his legs and "discretely" referred to it after every move. He didn't last long before being caught and booted out.

Incidentally when I was playing in an event in Abu Dhabi in 2002, there were rumours about one player cheating. The playing venue was about 5-10 minutes from the hotel where most of the players were staying, but one of the slightly unusual things about this event was that the games had to be paused every day for about 15 minutes in late afternoon and all the players leave the tournament hall in order for the local players to be able to observe prayer time. Anyway there were rumours about one player using this prayer time to go back to the hotel and , shall we say, see how his game was going. Since I hadn't had to play the player in question I didnt worry too much about it but I learned towards the end of the event that the organisers had become aware of his behaviour.

So what did they do ? Disqualify him from the rest of the event ? Ban him ? No, they just put a two line message in the final tournament bulletin (not naming any names) merely saying "this sort of behaviour is unsportsmanlike and please can players kindly not do it next year"

[IM Jack Rudd]

My calculations give the following norm chances:

GM Norms

D Leroy needs 2/2 with PIN 20 or better in round 9
J Houska needs 2/2 with PIN 4 or better in round 9
S Ansell needs 2/2 with PIN 1 in round 9

IM Norms

J Rudd needs 1½/2 with anybody in round 9, or 1/2 with PIN 23 or better in round 9 (irrelevant - already has three IM norms)
J Anderson needs 1½/2 with anybody in round 9, or 1/2 with PIN 19 or better in round 9
G Kjartansson needs 2/2 with any titled player in round 9, or 1½/2 with PIN 22 or better in round 9
P Poobalasingam needs 2/2 with PIN 39 or better in round 9
N Chkhaidze needs 2/2 with PIN 16 or better in round 9
J Rojas Alarcon needs 2/2 with PIN 11 or better in round 9

[Maxim Devereaux]

Beginning to suspect this should have it's own thread, but...

Obviously there would seem to be little point in cheating at a local level, but something like, say, Gibraltar, with £100,000 of prize money at stake, it's a completely different matter.

Which leads me to mention another sort of 'cheating' which went on there last year... the case of a Russian IM, rated 2450ish some years ago, whose rating then declined sharply to ~2150 to 2200 between 2003 and 2005, where it has stayed since. Played in both the Masters and Challengers 1 and 2, with the clear intention of picking up a whole raft of prize money

What he actual got was:
1st= Masters U2200 rating prize: £1500
1st Challengers 2: £1500
2nd= Challengers combined: £250

I understand £3250 goes a pretty long way in Russia... and at least there were some strong young Norwegians (both in the Challengers and his rating category of the Masters) and a few of the stronger English players to stop him making a clean sweep, which would have netted him up to £6000.

I see he's playing again this year, though only (at present) down for the Masters. I hope that the organisers have the sense to bar him from the Challengers tournament, if he attempts to make a late entry. Plus they seem to have removed the combined standings prizes from the Challengers and Amateur, but there's still up to £5000 at stake for someone like him (or a computer cheat, for that matter).

Maxim

[Ben Purton]

I think Chernaiev should not be invited to Hastings again, after his accusations. I mean calling someone a cheat is different to just being rude like Madan was at Jessies tourn.

Ben

[TomChivers]

I think Chernaiev should not be invited to Hastings again, after his accusations. I mean calling someone a cheat is different to just being rude like Madan was at Jessies tourn.

I missed that. Is there a news report on it or something you might direct me to?!

[Ben Purton]

in like 2nd last round radovanocivich was playing for his final IM norm. He was battering Madan and madan just started goding him and then shouting in Russian I believe, might have been in something else as they are serbian and romanian. banging the clock, false moving , taking off ure watch... all these are semi fair game as they might not be viewed as moral by some but they are part of the game.

[David Sedgwick]

in like 2nd last round radovanocivich was playing for his final IM norm. He was battering Madan and madan just started goding him and then shouting in Russian I believe, might have been in something else as they are serbian and romanian. banging the clock, false moving , taking off ure watch... all these are semi fair game as they might not be viewed as moral by some but they are part of the game.

I don't think that this incident occurred at Hastings

[David Sedgwick]

in like 2nd last round radovanocivich was playing for his final IM norm. He was battering Madan and madan just started goding him and then shouting in Russian I believe, might have been in something else as they are serbian and romanian. banging the clock, false moving , taking off ure watch... all these are semi fair game as they might not be viewed as moral by some but they are part of the game.

I don't think that this incident occurred at Hastings

Now I've read the thread more carefully, I've realised that the Ben was describing something which happened at the Jessie Gilbert Celebration Tournament.

Sorry, Ben.

[TomChivers]

in like 2nd last round radovanocivich was playing for his final IM norm. He was battering Madan and madan just started goding him and then shouting in Russian I believe, might have been in something else as they are serbian and romanian. banging the clock, false moving , taking off ure watch... all these are semi fair game as they might not be viewed as moral by some but they are part of the game.

Oh. Ok! Thanks. Makes me glad (again) that I wear earplugs during play.

[Andy Burnett]

in like 2nd last round radovanocivich was playing for his final IM norm. He was battering Madan and madan just started goding him and then shouting in Russian I believe, might have been in something else as they are serbian and romanian. banging the clock, false moving , taking off ure watch... all these are semi fair game as they might not be viewed as moral by some but they are part of the game.

Not too sure about the 'taking off ure watch' part (?), but the rest of these actions are most definitely not part of the game! There are rules in place to prevent these types of behaviour (or rather to punish offenders) and I for one certainly wouldn't tolerate an opponent who got up to such things.

On the earlier point, I didn't see any mention of the 'Cherniaev incident' in Steve Giddins' daily reports?! It doesn't appear that any further action is being taken-does anyone have an update on this?

[Anthony Higgs]

According to a friend of mine on a neighbouring board, in Cherniaev-Snape (round 7) black offered a draw in a worse position as the GM was apparently in heavy time pressure. Cherniaev refused and a couple of moves later blundered and lost. After resigning he remonstrated with Snape along the lines of 'you shouldn't have have the audacity to offer a draw in such a bad position and it put me off'.



On a positive note I took part in the weekend congress and thoroughly enjoyed the whole event once again, long may it continue!