British Chess Championships 2011

[Ian Kingston]

Attempting OCR on the average scoresheet would result in gibberish. Quite apart from the poor quality of handwriting of many players, people use a huge variety of idiosyncratic notations, such as short algebraic, long algebraic, colons to signify captures, algebraic but with descriptive notation for captures, no indication of captures, descriptive notation, non-English notation, clock times after every move, clock times at 10 move intervals etc.

I would suggest that if we want game scores to be instantly available (which I think is desirable for high-profile events) then we should be willing to pay for it in our entry fees. If we're happy to have them after the event, then leave it to volunteers. Players can always be asked to send in their own games, but it's not something you could rely on.

[Steve Rooney]

Attempting OCR on the average scoresheet would result in gibberish. Quite apart from the poor quality of handwriting of many players, people use a huge variety of idiosyncratic notations, such as short algebraic, long algebraic, colons to signify captures, algebraic but with descriptive notation for captures, no indication of captures, descriptive notation, non-English notation, clock times after every move, clock times at 10 move intervals etc.

Exactly. Using OCR to get game scores is highly optimistic and likely to take longer than someone entering the moves whilst deciphering the gibberish.

Will there be a time when game scores are captured electronically by the players at the board? The technology exists but is currently price prohibitive. Chess players will probably always prefer to use three-dimensional sets to play with, but why not have a recording device instead of a scoresheet?

[Alan Burke]

Loz Cooper ... My comment was to Alex H - and he had already quite manged to answer for himself earlier in the thread !

[Stewart Reuben]

It is a great pity that Monroi is simply too expensive for European pockets (about £200 a unit). The players inputting the games that way means they are immediately live and removes all problems. This is the preferred system in North America. At the Olympiads they simply use electronic boards for all games. In Gibraltar we use all three systems.
All three systems require considerable technical skills. It amazes me that some can input a game in two minutes considering how awful the scoresheets often are. I have thought of offering a prize for the best kept scoresheets. I have been inhibited because of the time required to do the inspection.
Time would be saved if there was computerisation of the Swiss Pairings. There is a tradition in Britain of understaffing the arbiting team. But we also have a tradition of changing the FIDE Laws to require less supervision of games than in most other places. Not in the US though. They employ very few staff.
Having been congress organiser, arbiter, pairings controller, bulletin editor, press officer and sometimes filler at British events it never occurred to me to complaint that to do the job properly it needed more money. Simply put up the entry fees and provide a better service, or stop whingeing and do what you can with limited resources.
The entry fees were last increased in 2009 by 20%. The result, more players have participated since. The entry was 8% higher in Sheffield than Canterbury. But the increase was only 5% for the U16-U8s. For those players the fees were reduced by 50%. Is there a lesson to be learnt here?
Stewart Reuben

[Roger de Coverly]

Will there be a time when game scores are captured electronically by the players at the board? The technology exists but is currently price prohibitive. Chess players will probably always prefer to use three-dimensional sets to play with, but why not have a recording device instead of a scoresheet?

It could be done today. All you need is a PGN input app and a Smartphone. Which is of course why it cannot happen, because of the very obvious danger of the app not just recording moves but suggesting them as well.

http://www.chess.com/download/view/android-chess-apps
http://www.appbrain.com/app/chess-for-a ... roid.chess
http://blog.chess.com/SonofPearl/score-sheet-iphone-app

Monroi got in first and were granted a monopoly.

[Steve Rooney]

Will there be a time when game scores are captured electronically by the players at the board? The technology exists but is currently price prohibitive. Chess players will probably always prefer to use three-dimensional sets to play with, but why not have a recording device instead of a scoresheet?

It could be done today. All you need is a PGN input app and a Smartphone. Which is of course why it cannot happen, because of the very obvious danger of the app not just recording moves but suggesting them as well.

http://www.chess.com/download/view/android-chess-apps
http://www.appbrain.com/app/chess-for-a ... roid.chess
http://blog.chess.com/SonofPearl/score-sheet-iphone-app

Monroi got in first and were granted a monopoly.

I'm not totally convinced by the cheating concerns. Anyone fiddling with their phone/device to open an engine is likely to be spotted in a playing hall, and arbiters could have the right to inspect any recording device at any point during the game on-spec or if requested by an opponent. It would clearly be preferable if there were a standard device that was dedicated to the purpose, ie some competition for Monroi.

[Alan Burke]

Steve .. I agree about not having mobile phones or any other electrical device on with the playing hall (apart from the arbiters, of course), but there were still occasions at Sheffield when some people (even some who perhaps should have known better) seemed to want to ignore this rule and were then, err... let's say "not happy" at being told they should not have them on.

[Alex McFarlane]

I had to eject a woman for texting. It was the third time I had warned her and the second in about an hour. Her reply was initially that she couldn't go as that would be unfair on her non-playing daughter who was also in the hall. She then claimed that I should take responsibility for the aforementioned off-spring. I did manage to politely decline her request. I believe I used the double positive "Yes. Right."

She was sitting underneath a no mobiles sign and opposite another!

[Sean Hewitt]

For 2013 I think the ECF Board should be looking at OCRing the games in as soon as they are finished to create PGNs and subsequently create a Tournament Book for sale in ebook format. That gives you 2 years to sort it guys.

If you can get OCR software to read somthing like this I reckon you are doing very well indeed!

[Stewart Reuben]

Alan Burke >.. I agree about not having mobile phones or any other electrical device on with the playing hall (apart from the arbiters, of course),<
Nows there's an idea. Electronic arbiters.

Stewart

[LozCooper]

Steve .. I agree about not having mobile phones or any other electrical device on with the playing hall (apart from the arbiters, of course), but there were still occasions at Sheffield when some people (even some who perhaps should have known better) seemed to want to ignore this rule and were then, err... let's say "not happy" at being told they should not have them on.

I wasn't aware that the rule extended to MP3 players

[Sean Hewitt]

Alex H .. perhaps it might be a good idea for you to spend a tournament with an arbiter and see just what "spare time" they have to do all the inputting you want them to do - but please remember that you would need to be in the playing hall well before the commencement of play and also stay there for quite some time after the last game has finished - and for nothing !

He did exactly that at Sunningdale from 10-14 August

Not quite. He didn't do it for nothing

[Alex Holowczak]

For 2013 I think the ECF Board should be looking at OCRing the games in as soon as they are finished to create PGNs and subsequently create a Tournament Book for sale in ebook format. That gives you 2 years to sort it guys.

If you can get OCR software to read somthing like this I reckon you are doing very well indeed!

That scoresheet gives me nightmares.

[Alan Burke]

Alex McF ... Yes, I would possibly even go further and try to stop those offenders from attending future events - perharps organisers of other congresses might wish to state what they would do if someone was found using an electronic device at their own tournaments ???

Stewart ... You means that Alex McF isn't already installed with Ever Ready batteries ?

[Alex McFarlane]

I wasn't aware that the rule extended to MP3 players

It applies to any communication device. A player, for instance, could have recorded opening lines. A spectator could be passing on such info.