British Chess Championships 2011

[Alex Holowczak]

Perharps organisers of other congresses might wish to state what they would do if someone was found using an electronic device at their own tournaments ???

If I were the Organiser, I wouldn't do anything, because I'm not the arbiter. That sort of issue is one for the arbiter to deal with, and not anyone else. So I'd bring it to the arbiter's attention, and leave it at that.

[LozCooper]

I wasn't aware that the rule extended to MP3 players

It applies to any communication device. A player, for instance, could have recorded opening lines. A spectator could be passing on such info.

Point taken. I assume an exception can be made for live boards though

[IM Jack Rudd]

Alex McF ... Yes, I would possibly even go further and try to stop those offenders from attending future events - perharps organisers of other congresses might wish to state what they would do if someone was found using an electronic device at their own tournaments ???

Depends what he'd been doing with it. Had he been using it to cheat, or to deliberately cause distractions, I'd consider refusing entry to subsequent events. (Otherwise, Alex H is quite right: what to do about it at the tournament itself is the arbiter's decision, not the organizer's.)

[Sean Hewitt]

perharps organisers of other congresses might wish to state what they would do if someone was found using an electronic device at their own tournaments ????

It's for an arbiter to decide what action to take rather than an organiser, or indeed anyone else. There is actually nothing in the laws prohibiting the use of electronic devices per se. Mobile phones or other electronic communication devices are however prohibited. So, when acting as an arbiter I would consider who was using the electronic device, what the device was, and where they were using it.

For example a player using a mobile phone during his game would be defaulted wherever that occurred. If he were running chess software, he would be disqualified from the event. I have had to do this once.

At the European Championships I had a spectator sending a text from the smoking area which had been designated as part of the playing area. I had a quiet polite word and we had a laugh and the phone was turned off. Another spectator, in all innocence, got out a laptop in the coffee area (also part of the playing area) and was sending an email. He was also politely asked to turn it off. In contrast, some spectators were listening (presumably to music) through headphones from an i-pod. You can't communicate with someone using such a device and therefore we considered that to be fine, though I respect Alex M's interpretation.

[Alan Burke]

Alex H / Jack .. yes, I would agree with your comments, but the arbiters are "employed" (not always in a financial sense) to apply the rulings as set out by the tournament organisers. It is like at football; referees do not make the laws, they only apply them as dictated by the Premier League.

Therefore, the organiser is ultimately responsible for what happens at their own tournament and it would therefore be interesting to know from a congress organiser what instructions might be given to an arbiter on how to deal with someone who has an electronic device on in the playing hall - and what action they might take if said person displayed some aggression (verbal or otherwise) to the person asking them to turn off their device ?

[Alex Holowczak]

Alex H / Jack .. yes, I would agree with your comments, but the arbiters are "employed" (not always in a financial sense) to apply the rulings as set out by the tournament organisers.

No, they're not. The arbiters are employed to enforce the FIDE Laws of Chess. Electronic communication devices are one-such example.

Therefore, the organiser is ultimately responsible for what happens at their own tournament and it would therefore be interesting to know from a congress organiser what instructions might be given to an arbiter on how to deal with someone who has an electronic device on in the playing hall - and what action they might take if said person displayed some aggression (verbal or otherwise) to the person asking them to turn off their device ?

No organiser needs to give the arbiter an instruction. The instructions of the chess-related penalties are laid-down in the Laws of Chess. If the arbiter asks the person to turn it off, there won't be a problem.

[Alan Burke]

But Alex, just who are the arbiters "employed" by ?

An organiser can run a tournament in exactly the way they wish (ie grading bands; time limits). If an organiser wished to run an event which allowed mobile phones to be in use during play, that could be done and any arbiter "employed" by them would just have to apply that ruling for that event.

I am just asking what sanction might be appropriate for someone who, having been told to turn off a mobile / electronic device, (as that is the rules for that competition) reacts maybe with some abuse to the person asking them to do so ?

[LozCooper]

But Alex, just who are the arbiters "employed" by ?

An organiser can run a tournament in exactly the way they wish (ie grading bands; time limits). If an organiser wished to run an event which allowed mobile phones to be in use during play, that could be done and any arbiter "employed" by them would just have to apply that ruling for that event. ?

This may be true for non FIDE rated events but it is certainly not true if you wish them to eligible for FIDE rating and for title norms. In fact, for such events an organiser is very limited in what he can and can't do.

[Alan Burke]

Loz ... that is very true, but what about an opinion on the other part of my post from which you quoted ? What would you do about someone who, in accordance with the tournament rules, is made aware that they should turn off their mobile or electroinic device and reacts with abuse to the person informing them ?

[Stewart Reuben]

You will find the duties of the Chief Organiser and the Chief Arbiter explained in the FIDE Tournament Rules on their website.
They must work together, preferably in unison.
If an organiser put in an unacceptable rule, or said he intended to allow the FIDE Laws to be flouted, the arbiter has the option of not working at that event. FIDE shouldn't rate an event where the FIDE Laws are not followed.
In 2008 at the British I made it clear to the arbiters that all highly critical comments should be directed towards me as organiser. If an arbiter has a row (incredibly rare, British arbiters are too good at their job) with a player, spectator or official, then I would try to find out the facts. (Not always easy). If anybody had behaved unacceptably, then I would try to get the matter cleared up. In the scenario Alan Burke gives above I would require the offending party to apologise or, if inadequate, expel the person from the event. In 1996, with the help of the university staff, somebody was barred from the whole Nottingham University campus.

Neither the arbiter, nor the organiser has the right to bar people from future events not under their control. That has to rest with the ECF or FIDE.

Stewart Reuben

[LozCooper]

Loz ... that is very true, but what about an opinion on the other part of my post from which you quoted ? What would you do about someone who, in accordance with the tournament rules, is made aware that they should turn off their mobile or electroinic device and reacts with abuse to the person informing them ?

I would ask for the other person's version of events and then ask any witnesses present. I would then try and reach a balanced judgement based on all the information.

[Stewart Reuben]

It occurs to me people may be amused by the following:
One year a non-player behaved in what I thought was an unacceptable manner towards a player. I told the non-player that if there was any further such incident he would be barred from the venue.
The non-player was the father and the player his teenage son. After that I could do no wrong in the eyes of the father, who was a Deputy Headmaster.

Stewart

[Alan Burke]

... and Loz, what would you do if it proven to be true ?

[LozCooper]

... and Loz, what would you do if it proven to be true ?

That would depend on what took place and what was said.

[Adam Raoof]

... and Loz, what would you do if it proven to be true ?

That would depend on what took place and what was said.

This is a great discussion. Were either of you actually there?