Edinburgh chess congress and the ECF grading system

[Ernie Lazenby]

This post must not be read as a complaint because its not. I find the subject interesting.

I have entered the Edinburgh Congress (Challengers section) at the end of March. I have been told that the result of my games will not be sent to the ECF for grading indeed no results at all will be sent to the ECF because of cost.

I guess this means that my games will not be included for grading by the ECF grader? Perhaps there is a way and if so can anyone explain how it can be done.

I have noticed that quite a few Scottish players play in English events and their games are graded by the ECF- or am I wrong? If I am correct why does it not work the other way around.

Perhaps if I lose all my games it would be best not to ask for them to be graded, on the other hand if I win!

I am very happy that I can still play in congress's and will enjoy Edinburgh whatever but it would be good to read comments.

[John McKenna]

This is not the answer but I'd just say that some events on the continent exempt themselves from FIDE rating so that everyone can play in a single section without those with ratings as heavy as whales worrying about losing rating points to tiddlers.
Also, I once played in Dublin and that involved having to join the Irish Chess Federation - there were a number of fringe benefits, including a year's worth of their magazine.
Will your games be graded/rated by the Scottish Federation, I wonder?

[Ernie Lazenby]

My local grader found the answer for me via the national grader. This is from the ECF web site

Games are accepted from ECF Direct Members played outside of England. Direct Members must give prior notice (before the event takes place) of their intention to submit results in this way (see details on the submission form). Results must be sent within one month of the end of the event.
THIS SERVICE IS WITHDRAWN WITH EFFECT FROM EASTER 2012. Results will be accepted from events played up to and including Easter. Later results will be accepted if the DM has already given notice

[Alex Holowczak]

I have noticed that quite a few Scottish players play in English events and their games are graded by the ECF- or am I wrong? If I am correct why does it not work the other way around.

Scottish players play in English events and their games are ECF-graded.
English players play in Scottish events and their games are CS-graded. (Aren't they?)

Scottish players play in English events and their games can be CS-graded if they're members.
English players play in Scottish events and their games can be ECF-graded if they're members. (Although, as you later alluded, the service has been withdrawn at Easter.)

The ECF grades their games because the English event organisers pay Game Fee on their behalf. So those players are deemed to be paying the Game Fee, and so the games are graded.

[Ernie Lazenby]

well if the service is being withdrawn, will that not inhibit players south of Hadrians wall from playing north of it.

Leads to another question; lets suppose I win all 5 games(wishfull thinking) and get a scottish grading of over 200 how would that impact on my entry to majors in England where my current ECF rating is 160.

[Alex Holowczak]

well if the service is being withdrawn, will that not inhibit players south of Hadrians wall from playing north of it.

No, it won't. It won't make the slightest difference whatsoever. The service being withdrawn is the ability to grade results played outside England within the English grading system.

Leads to another question; lets suppose I win all 5 games(wishfull thinking) and get a scottish grading of over 200 how would that impact on my entry to majors in England where my current ECF rating is 160.

I'd like to think you'd get a Scottish grade of over 200 whatever you do, because they have a four-digit rating not unlike Elo! Your ECF grade is 160. So your Scottish rating should come out to be about 1700-2000. Even then, you'd need to play more than 5 games to get a rating. But I don't know how it works algorithmically.

In any case, a Scottish rating of any kind will not have any impact at all on English events with a section limit of, say, 160 or under. The organisers of the English events would only be interested in my English grade, and wouldn't have the slightest interest in your Scottish rating. In the same way that if I entered a congress, they'd be interested in my grade of 144, and my FIDE-rating of 1680 would be an irrelevance.

[Geoff Chandler]

Hi Ernie - Your grade up here will be: 1780


This is from the CS site:


In 2009 the English Chess Federation (ECF) made significant revisions to how they calculate their grades. To counter what they identified as deflation all domestic grades were revised significantly higher. The increase was not uniform but produced a larger increase among lower grades eg on average 100 ECF is now 124, 125 is now 144, 140 is now 156.

If we used the traditional conversion formula then a 100 ECF who was worth 1400 will now be worth 1590. This will introduce inflation into the CS system if we ignored the changes which have been made to the ECF system and use the traditional conversion factor.

We will continue to grade games against ECF graded players but will modify the conversion formula. ECF grades now convert to CS by using ECF *10+180 = CS. So an ECF player rated 100 will convert to 1180 CS. (Sep 2010: We will now use ECF junior grades converted by the new formula).

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[Roger de Coverly]

The service being withdrawn is the ability to grade results played outside England within the English grading system.

As existing members have paid for this service as part of their membership cost, do you not think it should be honoured to the end of their membership?

Also as Council is in theory representative of the members, don't you think that Council should have been asked to approve this measure? Perhaps I should try to prod the Direct Member's representatives into action and ask them to raise this issue?

[Alex Holowczak]

Perhaps I should try to prod the Direct Member's representatives into action and ask them to raise this issue?

Perhaps you could, but you'd best get at it quickly. If I've worked it out correctly, and I may not have done, then the 37-day deadline to notify the Company Secretary is reached at 1:30pm today (since I'm posting after midnight).

[Roger de Coverly]

Perhaps you could, but you'd best get at it quickly. If I've worked it out correctly, and I may not have done, then the 37-day deadline to notify the Company Secretary is reached at 1:30pm today (since I'm posting after midnight).

Remind me again. For those not reading this unofficial forum, how would they find out about the change in practice? I fail to recall an announcement on the ECF website, an article in ChessMoves or an email to existing members, particularly those who have used this membership benefit.

I'm aware there's a bubbling feud between Adam and Sean. Is this not just another blow in the cold war?

[David Sedgwick]

Perhaps I should try to prod the Direct Member's representatives into action and ask them to raise this issue?

I've already arranged for one of my representatives to raise the matter at the Finance Council Meeting.

Perhaps you could, but you'd best get at it quickly. If I've worked it out correctly, and I may not have done, then the 37-day deadline to notify the Company Secretary is reached at 1:30pm today (since I'm posting after midnight).

I don't think a formal motion is necessary on this kind of issue. There's no reason why, following a question and a reply from the Director, the Chairman can't seek the opinion of Council. The Board would technically be free to ignore the outcome, but it would do so at its peril in my view.

I'm aware there's a bubbling feud between Adam and Sean. Is this not just another blow in the cold war?

I may be wrong, but I don't think there's a connection.

[Adam Raoof]

I'm aware there's a bubbling feud between Adam and Sean. Is this not just another blow in the cold war?

With respect, you have been badly informed.

[John Upham]

With respect, you have been badly informed.

Are you willing to inform this place as to the actual state of affairs?

[Roger de Coverly]

I may be wrong, but I don't think there's a connection.

Players asked Sean about the grading status of the Easter event in Dublin, who in turn asked the ECF. The ECF could have offered them the option to register through Game Fee. This isn't anything new, Guernsey and some of the Welsh events have had this status for years. Alternatively, the ECF could have drawn attention to the scheme of pre-registering your intention to play in a Foreign event.

Instead the ECF decided to withdraw the scheme.