Anand v Gelfand

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Paul Cooksey

Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Paul Cooksey » Thu May 24, 2012 7:00 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:happy to hear more suggestions regarding my list ...
Great post.

If you have K-k 85 g24, I think you have to have its twin k-k 87 g24, the classic example of playing slowly to win a big game, with a high class BvN lesson included. k-k 1985 g16 (the d5 sacrifice in the e6 sicilian) has been described by GK as one of his greatest games. The game I associate with awesome adjournment analysis is k-k 90 g16 (3rd great g16. 100 moves, with GK breaking down a fortress with kd8).

All GK wins which is odd since my sympathies were always with AK. k-k 90 g23 a remorseless anti KID positional squeeze lives in my memory since I thought AK was going to get the title back. But objectively, I think the consensus is GK was below his best level.

I'm not going to argue too much about the absence of Gk-Short 93. g9 (The Qc2 Nimzo with the Ne2 novelty) is the one that stays in my mind.

Agree on VK-Leko g13 (the drawn Benoni), slightly disappointed that when I checked the game number, Jonathan had already included it!

I'd add VK-Topalov g2 (The slav where Topalov conducts a brilliant attack, misses the win and loses.) Between this and the famous GK 1999 Pirc game, arguably Topalov's two best games are loses.

VK-Anand I suspect Jonathan means 5+6 not 6+7. I think game 5 (Anand's black meran win with ke7 connecting rooks for the attack and the nice ne3 finish) is the great one.

If I am honest I remember Anand-Topalov more for mistakes than great games, particularly Topalov's self destruct in the last game.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Thu May 24, 2012 8:49 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
If you have K-k 85 g24, I think you have to have its twin k-k 87 g24, the classic example of playing slowly to win a big game, with a high class BvN lesson included.
That's a debatable one since Karpov missed a clear draw just before the time trouble. But that itself was due to an error by Kasparov, I think. For me it's borderline beacuse I am thinking here of the inherent quality of the chess itself, and am not sure whether that game would be so well remembered if it were game one or two.
Paul Cooksey wrote: k-k 1985 g16 (the d5 sacrifice in the e6 sicilian) has been described by GK as one of his greatest games. The game I associate with awesome adjournment analysis is k-k 90 g16 (3rd great g16. 100 moves, with GK breaking down a fortress with kd8).
definitely I shoud have included game 16 of 1985 since that will still be spoken of in many years to come (domination, or what!). I think I omitted that because it was largely home preparation but that was not a good reason to exclude it (and anyway I included game 10 of kasparov v Anand). You can have game 16 of 1990 too - Kasparov should really have finished him off by move 40 but it was impressive defence by Karpov which kept him in the game.
Paul Cooksey wrote: All GK wins which is odd since my sympathies were always with AK. k-k 90 g23 a remorseless anti KID positional squeeze lives in my memory since I thought AK was going to get the title back. But objectively, I think the consensus is GK was below his best level.
I think I listed game 4 of 1985. But you're right. I think the reason is that I list games where something special happened chess-wise or where a heroic battle was fought - it must be games which we will still be talking about in many years to come - and that does tend to favour Kasparov, who was more creative (Karpov wsas on his part more pragmatic) and who often folded in bad positions, and so some of his losses were missing some of the heroic resistance which we saw from Karpov in some of kasparov's wins.
Paul Cooksey wrote: I'm not going to argue too much about the absence of Gk-Short 93. g9 (The Qc2 Nimzo with the Ne2 novelty) is the one that stays in my mind.
spoilt by the gratuitous drawing opportunity missed by both players at the end. But perhaps I should have included game 8 - some great play by Short and considerable practical resistance from Kasparov
Paul Cooksey wrote: Agree on VK-Leko g13 (the drawn Benoni), slightly disappointed that when I checked the game number, Jonathan had already included it!
we haven't had a comparable draw since
Paul Cooksey wrote: I'd add VK-Topalov g2 (The slav where Topalov conducts a brilliant attack, misses the win and loses.) Between this and the famous GK 1999 Pirc game, arguably Topalov's two best games are loses.
well, the brilliant attack came directly from the opening, so it is almost as though he missed his mate in two opportunity just after he left theory.
Paul Cooksey wrote: VK-Anand I suspect Jonathan means 5+6 not 6+7. I think game 5 (Anand's black meran win with ke7 connecting rooks for the attack and the nice ne3 finish) is the great one.

If I am honest I remember Anand-Topalov more for mistakes than great games, particularly Topalov's self destruct in the last game.
You're probably right about game 5 of Kramnik v Anand but I did mean to include game 7 - a very hard defence of an ending which many thought to be lost, but big Vlad was in his element. high level game on both sides.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Thu May 24, 2012 11:42 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
A few things struck me about that list:

1933, 1935 and 1937 were held (collectively) in 30 cities. Can you imagine that happening nowadays?

1981 (Karpov-Korchnoi) was only 18 games because it was "first to 6 wins".

There have been 'best of 20' and 'best of 16' and 'best of 14' before.

1886 was first to ten wins, but only lasted 20 games. Lot more decisive games then.
Kasparov vs Karpov 1990 only had two decisive games (a win apiece) after 10 games and the third decisive result didn't come until game 16. In the two previous matches (86 and 87) there were only three decisive games in the first 10. I wish today's players would risk their reputations in a 24 game match - if Anand and Gelfand were doing so the tension would be mounting - such matches tend to gain interest when the drama builds.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri May 25, 2012 2:34 pm

Anyone know why they've put an extra rest day in between rounds 11 and 12? Round 11 on Saturday, Round 12 on Monday. They played on Sunday 20 May, so it can't be a Sunday thing (not likely anyway). Is it just to increase the tension?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri May 25, 2012 2:49 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Anyone know why they've put an extra rest day in between rounds 11 and 12? Round 11 on Saturday, Round 12 on Monday. They played on Sunday 20 May, so it can't be a Sunday thing (not likely anyway). Is it just to increase the tension?

You may have noticed that they play four games a week. There's a perception that whoever has White on the second consecutive day is at a disadvantage so they switch halfway. To avoid anyone having an advantage on the last two games, they move to one game every two days. So Gelfand with his last white cooks up something really good using the rest day. You give Anand the same chance with the extra day.

Paul Cooksey

Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat May 26, 2012 1:47 pm

More disappointing chess today; interesting opening, immediate simplification

Ray Sayers

Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Ray Sayers » Sat May 26, 2012 2:33 pm

After the 'scare' of the two decisive games, I get the feeling that both players are ready to bail for a draw at any moment. Sure, they probe, but if things look murky - chop wood, shake.

If this were a 24 game match I am sure they would be more positive. But both sides probably fancy their chances in a rapid play off. It will be a pity if the World title is decided by a rapidplay though.

Ray Sayers

Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Ray Sayers » Sat May 26, 2012 2:46 pm

No sooner the word than the deed...

Graham Borrowdale

Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Sat May 26, 2012 2:48 pm

Its a draw then. I have a feeling the last game might provide some drama, as in Anand-Topalov or Kramnik-Leko. Its a pity its on Monday rather than Sunday though.

Ray Sayers

Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Ray Sayers » Sat May 26, 2012 2:50 pm

Maybe Vishy will play the Grob....

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sat May 26, 2012 3:03 pm

Boring, probably another fast draw in the next game and then Anand will win the rapid with relative ease
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Colin Patterson
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Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Colin Patterson » Sat May 26, 2012 3:41 pm

Tedious, safety-first chess from both players.

Thank goodness for Peter Svidler, who seems able to inject a bit of life into most positions. Most impressed with his commentary skills and terrific command of English.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sat May 26, 2012 4:00 pm

"Anyone know why they've put an extra rest day in between rounds 11 and 12?"

Both Anand and Gelfand request Sunday off as they wish to stay up late
tonight to watch the Eurovision Song Contest.

John McKenna

Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by John McKenna » Sat May 26, 2012 4:29 pm

Eurovision Song Contest, or Englelbert and the babushkas? The whole thing has been turned on its head by Spain's TV station sending their entrant the following message - please don't win. To which their singer Pastora Soler agreed - I think it is not the moment, neither for Spain nor for Spanish public, to win Eurovision. If we won, I think it would be impossible to stage the next edition because it costs so much money.
The message is clear - give us your (nil) points.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Anand v Gelfand

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sat May 26, 2012 4:58 pm

If we win we can just hand the whole thing to Simon Cowell.
He can do a 'Europe's Got Talent' show.

Better still give him the global rights and he can do 'The Planet Has Talent'.

Going to put £5.00 on the Russian Grandmothers to win it tonight.
(wonder what the odds are for a draw....seems the trend.)

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