ECF to scrap its grading system

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Stewart Reuben
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:27 am

The Gliko System seeks to address some of the above problems. Basically the player has a k factor that affects the rate of change in his rating; and also a number that affects how much impact his rating has on his opponent's rating. I may have that wrong, it was some years ago.
The QC intended to do a parallel run to the current FIDE Rating system, for perhaps 2 years, but it never happened.
To give an idea. In the FIDE System, once a player reached 2400, his k factor remains at 10 forever. 750/10 means such a player's rating turns over in 75 games. Jonathan Penrose retired many years ago. If he came back, he would be rated over 2400 and have a k factor of 10. The ECF system simply drops the old rating after a time. Neither system is 'correct'.

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:55 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:27 am
The QC intended to do a parallel run to the current FIDE Rating system, for perhaps 2 years, but it never happened.
That is true, but instead very extensive back testing was done. It was not sufficiently encouraging for the idea to be pursued further.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:34 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:27 am
To give an idea. In the FIDE System, once a player reached 2400, his k factor remains at 10 forever.
Apart from mine :wink:

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:33 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:34 pm
Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:27 am
To give an idea. In the FIDE System, once a player reached 2400, his k factor remains at 10 forever.
Apart from mine :wink:
Are you requesting an investigation into your rating history?

Brian Towers
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Brian Towers » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:53 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:33 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:34 pm
Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:27 am
To give an idea. In the FIDE System, once a player reached 2400, his k factor remains at 10 forever.
Apart from mine :wink:
Are you requesting an investigation into your rating history?
According to my records he had a rating of 2430 in the January 1988 list (pretty impressive for a 17 year old) which went down to 2335 in the July 1988 list and then stayed under 2400 to date.
His K value started at 10 in January 1988, moved up to 15 in the August 2012 list, then 20 in August 2014.
Perhaps his wink denotes extra interesting information hiding behind the bare statistics.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:40 am

Brian Towers wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:53 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:33 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:34 pm


Apart from mine :wink:
Are you requesting an investigation into your rating history?
According to my records he had a rating of 2430 in the January 1988 list (pretty impressive for a 17 year old) which went down to 2335 in the July 1988 list and then stayed under 2400 to date.
His K value started at 10 in January 1988, moved up to 15 in the August 2012 list, then 20 in August 2014.
Perhaps his wink denotes extra interesting information hiding behind the bare statistics.
My K factor was 15 from the time I had played 30 games and stayed at 15 until it became 20 in line with other players in 2014. I believe the reason that I never had a K factor of 10 (contrary to Brian's post above) was that I would have needed to be over 2400 after 30 games.

The wink was purely to observe that I knew of at least one example that contradicted Stewart's post, there may be others that I'm unaware of. I acknowledge that is somewhat rare to come on the list with an IM norm and then disappear below 2400 never to be seen again :oops:

Stewart Reuben
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Location: writer

Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:08 pm

The FIDE Ratings used to be very volatile for new players. This was because they simply published the TPR. Eventually the system was changed to Ra + 15 points (now 20) for each half point over 50% and that problem disappeared. Since the TPR was so volatile, the k=10 for ratings 2400 or higher did not come into effect until the player had played 30 rated games.
Bill Goichberg came on at 2535. Elo refused to publish the rating, stating that it was 100/1 against his getting such a rating. He seemed not to realise that 100/1 events come up one in every 100. 0lafsson instructed him to publish it. Bill spread joy and happiness around for a year, including playing in the Lloyds Bank Masters. Before anybody points out that rating were published every 6 months - note that originally they were annual.
When Lawrence achieved his IM norm and rating over 2400 at the Lloyds Bank Msters, I pointed out to him he would have achieved an even higher rating had he been paired with John Nunn and lost. Lawrence answered, 'Even IF I'd lost.'

Brian Valentine
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Brian Valentine » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:36 pm

In most circumstances, one thing that reduces volatility is simply by increasing frequency of lists while not changing the k-factor.

Nick Grey
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:41 pm

So is ECF's intention is to increase volatility by increasing frequency of lists. Make Juniors & players happy. Let us know what goes up may come down.
With hitting the Top 200 in this country that will be hit by any Fide - ECF joint issues?

Will juniors & adults get upset if they drop points? Will it be good for our mental health?

David Sedgwick
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Location: Croydon

Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:21 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:18 pm
Simon Brown wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:04 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:08 pm
Hence the 40 point cutoff, again which like junior additions was a 1960s development.
No, that was a later development, mid-seventies I'd say. It was 50 points when I started playing in 1967
My guess would be 1970.

John Saunders (in another thread) wrote:
Let's have a look at the rubric from the 1970 list...
1970 SCCU Grading List wrote:For 1970/71, a change in calculating methods will mean that games between players more than 40 points apart will be treated as though they were 40 points apart. If anyone is still interested in Grades as opposed to Grading Number, may we say that Grade 1a is 241-248, and thereafter everything goes down in eight points per half group.

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